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Author	Topic: help with French Markings
fishingchamp Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-11-2008 05:36 PM [26-1607] I have a huge Emile Puiforcat beer stein i need help with. there is a usual E\|P in a lozenge, and a mercury head. Question 1: There are at least 3 E\|P markings on the stein - 2 around the base of the stein, and 1 on the removable ornament Question 2) Similarly there are several mercury markings: 1 on an ornament, 1 on dragons "wing" and at least 1 on the base. Why so many marks? is this usual? There is also another marking that I could not make out at all. Could be Minerva, but I assume not necessary since it was used 1883 on and its possible that this one was made before that time? Can someone confirm or otherwise correct me, but if I'm correct - mercury hallmark was used from 1878-1884? Any help is appreciated. I hope these pictures work, still trying to figure out how to post them. IP: Logged
fishingchamp Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-11-2008 06:28 PM I'm Mark from NJ. I enjoy collecting silver pieces, Napoleon era to be exact. My entire family is into old silver items, as generations ago, 3 consecutive generations were silversmiths. I would love to display this piece at home, as this is probably the most magnificent piece I have, I'm just trying to get as much info on it as possible. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 03-11-2008 11:18 PM Mark, It sounds like you are not quite sure whether this item is a part of your personal collection or not. That this might become business research if you don't like what you hear. Please let us know clearly what is driving your interest in learning more about this item and that your inquiry is not in conflict with the SSF Guidelines. Thanks IP: Logged
fishingchamp Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-12-2008 06:12 AM My interest is simple, and do not mean to confuse anyone or violate any rules. I simply was asking for other peoples help in clearing up some of my confusion on markings, etc. This is my piece for my personal collection. I own other EP pieces, but have never seen so many markings. It is already displayed in my showcase, I simply have limited knowledge and want to learn more - that's what is driving my interest. I just read through SSF Guidelines - I do not see any conflict. I am sure about my piece, I was just looking for others input. Thanx IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 03-12-2008 02:50 PM fishingchamp, Very nice piece. A lot of work, a lot of silver, but not a lot of age. IP: Logged
adelapt Posts: 418 Registered: May 2003	posted 03-12-2008 05:03 PM Regarding the multiplicity of marks - no, this is not unusual. Some national hallmarking systems, particularly those of France and Russia under the old system, were very prescriptive in specifying that each piece of an object be marked. For example, a little milk jug in England would be marked on the base only (if all parts were fixed), whereas in Russia there would likely be marks on base or body, on the spout and on the handle (and lid if there was one). Tardy explains this in some detail for the French system. IP: Logged
fishingchamp Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-12-2008 06:07 PM I have to give tardy a closer look. I couldn't easily find the info thanx IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 03-12-2008 07:50 PM fishingcamp, The person who made this piece will supply you with as many and any kinds of marks that you wish. IP: Logged
fishingchamp Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-12-2008 08:06 PM Richard, I'm not really sure about that, but you've implied this twice already, and I respect your opinion. What brings you to that conclusion, may I know? this was handed down from a very reliable source, so I'm wondering IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 03-12-2008 09:57 PM This one is "Russian". Also seen with "German" marks. IP: Logged
fishingchamp Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-12-2008 10:07 PM Richard, Thanx so much for this. I'm a bit shocked. do you actually have this piece? Are there many spread by fraudsters? This is crazy. Anyway for me to contact you direct, or e mail me if you can please. Thanx Mark IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 03-12-2008 10:11 PM I no longer have it. I've been told that there was one ready to go at Sotheby's London last November, but that it was withdrawn because..... IP: Logged
fishingchamp Posts: 7 Registered: Mar 2008	posted 03-12-2008 10:17 PM SICK! Thanx again. I now have some serious work to do in back tracking all of this. Source of this one is way too close to your mention. Is this pic from your personal collection, or is it floating somewhere on the net? I now need to try and amass some solid proof IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 03-13-2008 04:35 AM Personal. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 03-16-2008 11:53 PM For yet to be explained reasons fishingchamp attempted to delete this thread. We tried to find out why but he has not provided any answers other then he would explain. But so far the explanation has not been forthcoming. We have restored the thread and are now returning it for all to see and learn from IP: Logged

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