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Author Topic:   Question on Swedish marking system
cbc58

Posts: 224
Registered: Aug 2008

iconnumber posted 12-11-2018 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If a Swedish silver item is lacking the "S", or a fineness amount (i.e. 830) - does that mean it is silver plate ? Or does the fact that it has the 3 crown mark mean it's silver and they just didn't mark it as such.

Time frame is 1880's...

Tks.

[This message has been edited by cbc58 (edited 12-11-2018).]

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dragonflywink

Posts: 953
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 12-11-2018 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, pics are always helpful, but would not expect to see the fineness expressed numerically, and believe the 'S' was put into use in 1912 - the cat's paw (three crowns in trefoil) would indicate a fineness of at least .830, there should also be a maker's mark, a city mark, and and the date code, which if 1880s, should end in a '6'...

~Cheryl

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cbc58

Posts: 224
Registered: Aug 2008

iconnumber posted 12-11-2018 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is an example of a spoon without the S. I was wondering if it is indeed silver. Tks.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 12-11-2018 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This might help:

cbc58 for us to better help you, you might want to learn how to take better closeups of marks.

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cbc58

Posts: 224
Registered: Aug 2008

iconnumber posted 12-12-2018 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
someone sent me that pic and I don't have the item. i've asked them to send me a better image.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 12-12-2018 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are not in possession and you are researching for someone else or to make a business decision then you are not abiding by the Guidelines. Perhaps you'd better give the Guidelines another read.

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cbc58

Posts: 224
Registered: Aug 2008

iconnumber posted 12-12-2018 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's required to have an item in your possession to post an inquiry ?

How is anyone supposed to learn about marks and makers if that is the case ? Is collecting a business decision or a personal decision ? I own spoons with the S but this one doesn't have it, and I'd like to know for future reference if I come across anything without the S if it is silver or something else.

I don't want to do anything that is against the site guidelines - but if you feel that my question doesn't conform to your high standards - I'll ask it somewhere else.

I appreciate all the help from the experienced members here and am learning as I go. Continental silver is foreign to me (pardon the pun), and I - like most here - are likely not going to buy something without understanding what it is ahead of time.

I'll make inquiries somewhere else if requested.

[This message has been edited by cbc58 (edited 12-12-2018).]

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11202
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 12-12-2018 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
   It's required to have an item in your possession to post an inquiry ?

It is best. This way you can personally inspect and reply to follow up questions.
If you are asking for someone else then they should join the forums and ask/learn themselves.

   How is anyone supposed to learn about marks and makers if that is the case ?

Most people focus their collections. If the collection isn't focused then they are buying what the like and then set out to learn more about their purchase.

   Is collecting a business decision or a personal decision ?

Whether something joins ones collection is both a business decision and a personal decision. There are many professionals here that don't want to be party to others buying decisions. Sometimes there are professional ethical issues/liabilities which makes it difficult for some members. Over the years we have some of our best participants become only lurkers because they can't tell whether there is an issue.

   ...learning as I go. Continental silver is foreign to me (pardon the pun),

If the goal is learn about Continental silver then knowing what references books you are preliminary starting your education with would be good for us to know. Perhaps we could recommend another.

   and I - like most here - are likely not going to buy something without understanding what it is ahead of time.

We are not here to help anyone to make a specific business/personal sale or purchase.
Most of us are here to share a genuine appreciation of the art, craft and history and we want do this with the like minded.

Perhaps one of our other professional members (now most likely now a lurker) would share why the Guidelines are important? The forums are over 25 years old and the Guidelines came into being from real issues/experiences at the forums.

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dragonflywink

Posts: 953
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 12-12-2018 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eh, picture posted is on an auction listing that sold a couple of hours ago...

~Cheryl

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cbc58

Posts: 224
Registered: Aug 2008

iconnumber posted 12-12-2018 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cbc58     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My initial post was a general question to learn about Swedish silver marks that lack the "S". I own some spoons by W.A. Bolin with the following mark:

The previously posted picture was indeed for an item at auction -- sent to me by someone who has seen my Bolin spoons, and I wanted to learn if silver lacking an S meant it was silverplate. That's how it was listed -- and that's knowledge I want to have as I'm hunting for spoons. I recently came across a large batch of foreign spoons (see other Continental silver post), and am learning that this area is quite diverse and complicated. Trying not to get burned nor pass on a solid piece for my collection.

My W.A. Bolin spoons are very well made.

P.S. - I own Tardy and it wasn't clear to me how the Swedish system works. Still confused since some pieces have 3 marks, some 4, some 5 and some possibly 6. Tardy is o.k. for some things but not for others.

[This message has been edited by cbc58 (edited 12-12-2018).]

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