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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 William Neal
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| Author | Topic: William Neal |
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bilgi Posts: 20 |
posted 10-19-2004 06:14 AM
  
I have an item having the makers mark of William Neal which is WN in a horizontal oval. Another item has nearly the same mark but there is a crown on top of the letters. Is it another maker or another mark of William Neal? Thanks IP: Logged |
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Silver Lyon Posts: 363 |
posted 10-25-2004 03:52 PM
What William Neal? when? What other marks? What sort of object ?? IP: Logged |
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bilgi Posts: 20 |
posted 10-26-2004 07:42 AM
Replies to Silver Lyon: What sort of object: Both are Posy holders. When and what other marks: Item 1) Item 2) What William Neal: I don't know. All these being said, I have to add that in various sales catalogs I have seen a few other Posy holders at dates such as: 1846, 1863 made by a Willam Neal, but I don't know what were the makers' marks(with or without the crown on top). So my question still is: Who is the maker of the item 2 above? Thanks for clarification. IP: Logged |
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Waylander Posts: 131 |
posted 10-26-2004 04:26 PM
Jacksons reveals the following: William Neal - mark entered in 1939, lastest mention was in 1850. Jacksons does't have an example of his mark, but Grimwade might. The dates fit, however, for the maker you are after. Waylander IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 10-26-2004 05:13 PM
Identifying a mark without a photograph is unreliable, however Grimwade shows only one WN in an oval, for William Neal, entered in 1829, with other similar marks noted as entered 1845-1860. IP: Logged |
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Silver Lyon Posts: 363 |
posted 10-29-2004 08:04 AM
There are at least two William Neal s - which is confusing to say the least! The first WN seems to have died or retired in 1864, when his mark at Goldsmiths' Hall in London was defaced. (This is an horizontal oval, as you describe). The second WN firstly registers a plain rectangular makers mark, but soon reverts to one virtually indistinguishable from that used by the first (grrr!!!). The only interesting other observation at this point is that the 2nd. oval mark (and rectangular mark) describes that WN as a 'small worker' but the earlier WN is a 'plate worker'. I think (this is only opinion!!) that the second WN is your man - Perhaps specialising in smaller type of work than his pre-decessor (Father?, Uncle?) - Posy Holders are surely 'small work' and in my experience are unusual in London. WN (2) seems to trade as William & George Neal, just to make matters worse. By 1883 the mark is WN over GN all in bubbles. I am unaware of a mark with a crown, but that is not to say that they did not use one - perhaps they were 'By appointment' to one of the Royal family for a short time?? (or just liked to think they were). Sorry not to be more help. [This message has been edited by Silver Lyon (edited 10-29-2004).] IP: Logged |
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nealsilver Posts: 1 |
posted 11-17-2004 06:52 PM
Hi, I just found this site by accident by searching William Neal, my ancestor. The 2 WN's were father and son. One of them made a posy holder for one of the Royals - I could let you know more if you're interested. I have been trying to find out their maker's marks and hopefully buy a piece made by one of them. Small world isn't it? IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 11-18-2004 03:25 PM
Thanks for providing that clarification. There is no biographical information on these men in Grimwade's London Goldsmiths beyond a chronology of their marks. I am certain any information you would care to provide for the record would be a worthwhile contribution. IP: Logged |
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