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Dublin Maker "WC"?

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Author	Topic: Dublin Maker "WC"?
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 02-18-2005 05:48 PM Given the good fun that resulted from my "TE/GS" inquiry, I am encouraged to "stir the pot" again with this one: Seems straightforward for Dublin, 1833-4. However, the "WC" mark does not match the mark given for "W. Cummins", and I have no other close listing for an identified smith. (Note: I will not attempt to specify the number of "lobes" on the maker's shield this time, given my recent embarrassing miscount - I'm going back to Sesame Street in the mornings!) I note that Wyler does describe the mark in question as that of an unidentified maker of "copper-plate" of the period of about 1813-1850. If that is all he made, then the marks pictured are really good examples of deceptive silver plate pseudo-hallmarks!!! IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 02-19-2005 12:02 AM Isn't the order of the marks wrong for Dublin silver? Tom IP: Logged
PhilO Posts: 166 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 02-19-2005 02:41 AM This mark is frequently attributed to William Cummins. The updated edition of Jackson has not thrown any more light on this; it is still listed as being on a copper-plate dating from 1813-1850. One bit of evidence in favour of it being Cummins is that I have recorded the confirmed mark between 1814 and 1829 and this mark from 1831 to 1846, so it may well be a replacement mark. By the way, I did not notice that TE/GS had 12 lobes either! Tom, there does not appear to be a prescribed order of marks. Phil IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 02-19-2005 12:21 PM Thanks for the clarification. Could you please give me the ID info on the updated Jackson book (title, revision, printing, date, ISBN, whatever), also if you have it for the latest Grimwade? I need to look into getting copies of these. Thanks again! IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 02-19-2005 03:15 PM Thanks for the info Philo. I have wondered about whether order matters, since all the references I use list the marks in precise order that does not seem to vary much. As for Jackson, there is a short edition and a massive reference volume that costs a fortune. I once thought about putting together a library until I realized how many books I would need and their cost. I'd rather spend my money collecting silver and using the library. Tom IP: Logged
PhilO Posts: 166 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 02-19-2005 04:40 PM Jackson's Silver & Gold Marks of England, Scotland & Ireland, edited by Ian Pickford, published by Antique Collectors' Club, 1989; ISBN 0907462634. This is the 3rd edition - seems to be the one on Amazon.com although they give the publishing date as 1987. Mine came from the UK Amazon which does give the right publishing date. I don't have Grimwade - waiting for a copy to come up on eBay at an affordable price! Phil IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 02-19-2005 05:41 PM The second, revised edition of Grimwade is 1982. See the book thread for more information on books, or use the search function. IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 02-19-2005 06:17 PM Thanks for the info. May spring for a new Jackson's, but I found only one used Grimwade, and ouch, shades of Belden! Nearly fried my CRT! Guess I'll have to wait on that one. IP: Logged
Silver Lyon Posts: 363 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 02-20-2005 08:38 AM Just to play 'Devil's Advocate! : As far as I can see, William Cummins ceases to trade c.1828/9 - he disappears from all the records that I have available to me - (Such as street directories) thus is it not more likely that this WC is deliberately in a different shaped punch because it is a DIFFERENT person, starting a few years later? - A note to the Dublin Assay office might provoke a definative response. This WC is a particularly good maker of flatware. IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 02-25-2005 12:05 AM Silver Lyon said, "This WC is a particularly good maker of flatware." Since I just popped for a flatware piece made by this maker, I am interested in the basis for your opinion, (with which I, of course, heartily agree, and commend you on your obviously well refined excellent taste!!!). The style of this particular piece was only on the periphery of my interests, but I felt I had to include it in my coming extravagavanza on small ladle differentiation. Stay tuned! IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 03-05-2005 07:39 PM As I indicated above, there is a question appearing today on the General board regarding differentiation of small ladle types. The ladle with the above marks is one of the six shown. Sauce or Toddy? IP: Logged
nihontochicken Posts: 289 Registered: May 2003	posted 03-05-2005 09:10 PM I came across a similar "WC" mark yesterday and managed to irretrievably lose the link. I think an attribution was made to a Wm. Crouch. Does this ring any bells? IP: Logged
adelapt Posts: 418 Registered: May 2003	posted 03-28-2005 12:16 AM For further info on the William Cumming mark, see Nihonto's "small ladle type" thread on the General Forum. IP: Logged
TBC Posts: 134 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 03-28-2005 07:14 PM Hi. I've a Jackson's (full edition) on order and it's cost me STG�50 (ooch!). But is should be worth it. And when it arrives, I;ll b emore than happy to share its contents on this and other questions about Irish (or UK) silver. Best rgds, Tom IP: Logged

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