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Hinge inventor

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Author	Topic: Hinge inventor
ozfred Posts: 87 Registered: Sep 2002	posted 03-05-2005 08:18 PM Somewhere I read of a Scotsman who invented the seven lug hinge used on silver boxes. Having searched my records I am unable to find the reference again so am hoping someone may know who this was and when he invented the hinge. Thanks. IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4132 Registered: Apr 99	posted 03-05-2005 08:43 PM Ignoring the Etruscans, Egyptians, Scythians, et al who used such hinges two millennia earlier, I have no idea who the Scotsman was. . . IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 03-05-2005 09:52 PM Being part Scotts I'd be proud to know this info, also what kind of hinge (flush, hidden, proud, etc.). As a maker the number of knuckles or joints is dictated first by considerations of function, then by aesthetics. I once saw a little snuff box with over 30 knuckles, a thing of beauty and technical excelence! IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 03-06-2005 04:13 AM A true Scot would only invent a multi part hinge involving much hand labour if he just happened to have lots of little silver bits left over from another job which were no use for anything else. Note for Non UK readers - the Scots are reputed to be the meanest inhabitants of the British Islands - a belief not actually true but well fostered by the Scots themselves . Sorry I cannot help with the serious side of the question IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 03-07-2005 02:07 PM As some one married to a Ross/MacDonald for 25 years, I can say the Scots tend to take credit for everything from the best whiskey (hotly disputed by the makers of Bourbon and Rye), road paving, pencilin (all of which they did invent). I like reminding my inlaws that a Scotsman also designed the Titanic. Taking credit for the hinge is like taking credit for the door post! Tom IP: Logged
ozfred Posts: 87 Registered: Sep 2002	posted 03-07-2005 09:20 PM Thanks to all who have responded. This is a valid question but has prompted some interesting reactions, so don't be too rough on the Scots as I do enjoy a tot or two of their whisky. IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2377 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 03-08-2005 12:18 AM I am not sure what a seven lug hinge is but James Sandy of Alyth in northern Scotland is credited by some to be the inventor of the invisible hinge. The hidden hinge was important as it allowed snuff to be preserved better than in previous boxes. James was born in 1766 and died in 1819. A Google� search can provide more information. IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 03-08-2005 12:02 PM ahwt, thanks for the info. James Sandy seems to be in the same mold as Watt, Stevenson,etc. (all Scotts), quite extraordinary. The hidden hinge is a thing of beauty and a challenge to box makers. One needs some good experience to master a well made one. Briefly, its main difference is that the thickness off the hinge tubing wall is 3-5 times that of a regular hinge and it has a small diameter hole for the hinge pin. After the tubing has been let into the lid of the box 2/3rds of the way and soldered the excess tubing wall that protrudes above the leval of the top of the box is then filed off and the hinge is now flush . Because of the tubings thickness and if well made, there are no gaps between the knuckles (I have never heard of lugs ) it makes a very strong and tighter hinge. The one weakness is that a poorly made hiden hinge is very thin right above the hinge pin (where it was filed) and this is the place where old ones show the hinge pin coming through or tearing. Ozfred, I hope this is not a case of to much info... This hinge has challenged me since I was shown it by my best friend who did a five year apprenticeship as a box maker, if so, we will just have to try a little of that wiskey? [This message has been edited by agleopar (edited 03-08-2005).] IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 03-08-2005 08:08 PM Some Sugar Nips also used a very clever box hinge, so clever that modern silversmiths have great difficulty in repairing them. The hinged tongs (rare) have a spring in them that CANNOT be repaired without damage as fasr as I know.. Clive IP: Logged
ozfred Posts: 87 Registered: Sep 2002	posted 03-08-2005 09:22 PM Thank you, all! This is the Scotsman whose name I was seeking. I now remember that he was crippled having checked the Web infomation. It is a little early for a tot to acknowledge those who replied. IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 03-08-2005 11:17 PM Clive, I am curious as to what the Boxmaker will say about the box hinges, I believe he can repair anything and will ask him if he has expirience with them and let you know. They have always looked impressive, but since the demand for these is very slow I have never tried to make one! Ozfred, its not too early here! IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 03-15-2005 10:50 AM Clive, I finaly had a talk with my friend who has between himself and his partner 70 odd yrs of smithing and repair experience. He confirmed the difficulty of repairing these hinges but said that mainly it is more about the lack of understanding of how the different types are made. Not to go to technical, but there are 3-5 techniques used from the simplest rivet to a threaded rivet with caps soldered on to hide it. Then variations that are either lead or silver soldered in very clever ways. He has tackled the steel spring version but thought they were rare in tea tongs and more likely to be seen in asparagrass tongs and the like. The jist of it is that a smith needs to have a lot of experience to recognize the type and then even more to properly tackle it! [This message has been edited by agleopar (edited 03-15-2005).] IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 03-15-2005 01:57 PM Thanks Anleopa - Your repairer sounds great - the problem I find is that anyone decent is so busy that you wait months if not years for jobs to be done. So anyone who has a good repairer keeps very quiet aboy it ! Yes the sugar tong versions are very scare and seem to be around 1770 -1780 only, whereas the "sparrow grass " tongs, also used for chops , were made longer . The most interesting pair I've ever seen were a broken pair of Nips -which no-one believes me about. They had a single assay mark and makers mark (unreadable) on each arm, BUT ON THE INSIDE OF THE HINGE , so until they got broken the marks could not be seen. What makes it so unbelievable is that they were Irish. !! Not a tall story ! Clive IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 03-15-2005 06:18 PM Clive, the 5yrs. I spent dealing with the London assay office showed that any thing is possible when it comes to their marking a piece of silver. We always joked that that day they had a hangover, or it was the new kid doing some unbelievable thing with the mark or the scraping to obtain the diet sample. And that was after you carefully showed exactly where you wanted them to scrape and mark with indelable ink, which they would ignore. It was always interesting to open your Hall packet on return to the workshop and find out what awaited. In all fairness the Hall assays a huge amount every year (they used to mark every link of a chain!) and 98% of the time they do it well. The fact that your tongs were marked in a place that could not be seen can be explained because the items sent to Hall are often unfinished and in pieces. They, as well as the smiths, like it that way because less care has to be taken (they charge more for marking a finished article) and then the individual pieces can be worked on to get them in shape and ready for assembly. They do qualify for top honors of assay eccentricities. Ozfred, good morning and thanks for letting Clive and I go on in your post... IP: Logged

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