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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Makers mark
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| Author | Topic: Makers mark |
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gillian Posts: 5 |
posted 03-31-2005 04:40 PM
  
Hi all. I have been trying to find a reference to a makers mark without much luck and hope someone may recognise it. The hallmark is very clear, and seems to be CTB. I have identified the anchor as Birmingham, and the Lion Passant. There is an Initial S (upper case) although I haven't learned enough yet to know which series this is, therefore the date is also a mystery. The hallmarks are on a pair of napkin rings. The notes to new members ask 'why' the interest. I am hooked on genealogy, and these belonged to my long deceased grandparents. They are just a small part of the huge jigsaw which genealogy allows me to build up of their lives, lifestyle etc. I realise a photo would help but this is my first visit to the site. thankyou Gillian IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 03-31-2005 10:20 PM
A photo would be really helpful here. The capital "S" is a date letter, but without seeing the style of the letter or the shape of punch in which it is set, it is hard say for what year. If you canot post a photo, try scanning in a drawing or least describe the shape of the crest and style of letter. As for British geneology, the Public Record Office in Kew Garden outside of London has materials on tracing your ancestors. Good luck, [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 03-31-2005).] [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 03-31-2005).] IP: Logged |
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TBC Posts: 134 |
posted 04-01-2005 11:46 AM
Hi. I agree with Tom, without a description of the shield around the letter "S" it is impossible to give a date. However, if there is no "duty mark" (monarch's head) and you have an anchor and lion passant, then, for the letter "S", it is likely to be either 1917/18, 1942/43 or 1967/68. Each have a distinctive shield around the letter "S" so if you have more information we can narrow it down. As to the maker's mark, I cannot find a "CTB" in my reference books, or anything like "CTB" for the three periods listed. If you have any more information, let us know and I'm sure we'll try to help. Rgds, TBC IP: Logged |
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gillian Posts: 5 |
posted 04-01-2005 01:52 PM
thankyou for your replies. I've tried and tried, but no matter which angle I come from, i can't manage a photo which shows all of the hallmark. The mark is on the smoothe front, and there is just too much reflection. I'll need to consult more books to see what i can come up with. Thanks again Gillian IP: Logged |
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TBC Posts: 134 |
posted 04-01-2005 02:07 PM
Gillian, Why not describe the shield or shape around the letter "S"? Also, try a tracing as Tom suggested, if you trace the mark with pencil, you will be able to photo a more stable object and perhaps even blow it up? Rgds, TBC IP: Logged |
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gillian Posts: 5 |
posted 04-01-2005 02:35 PM
Hi TBC........i tried a tracing, but because the hallmark is so small, it didn't help. As for the shape of the shield around the S. it is almost square, with the top two corners 'cornered' off, and the bottom line is like a }on it's side. These backgrounds are the same for the anchor and the lion. the makers mark is in a simple oblong, though corners appear rounded. As for the S itself, it is a solid upper case S. No fancy squiggles at start or end, just a bold simple S. I'm sorry I can't be more specific. Gillian IP: Logged |
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TBC Posts: 134 |
posted 04-01-2005 02:49 PM
Gillian, Ok. Well it's not 1967/68, because the "S" has a similar "top" to the side-ways "}" bottom which you describe. Rule that out! However, the shape you describe is very similar for both 1917/18 and 1942/43. Without sight or picture, the best I can offer is that IF the ends of the Anchor Mark are triangular (as in a cartoon-devil's tail) it is likely to be Bermingham, 1942/43. If the Anchor Mark's ends are more rounded, and less well shaped as triangles, it is likely to be Bermingham 1917/18. I do hope this helps narrow it down for you. I'm sorry, but I cannot determine the Maker's Mark. In my limited experience (I'm a relatively new member myself) the later the date, the less likely to find a reference to a maker in the reference books (or at least mine!). I do hope this is of some help to you. Rgds, TBC IP: Logged |
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gillian Posts: 5 |
posted 04-01-2005 03:05 PM
Hi TBC........you really have helped a lot. Though small but clear, I looked at the hallmark through a magnifying glass and to be honest, the bottom of the anchor looks just like a sausage........no shape at all really apart from curved. if this still fits with the date 1917/18, it also ties in with my grandparents........perhaps a present on their 1921 marriage. Though Birmingham, they are in a box marked Wallace Allan watchmaker & jeweller, Ayr, which is where my g/parents were from.That's good enough for me, to be able to include them in inventory notes in my genealogy....the maker mark can be something to toy with in the future. many many thanks again Gillian IP: Logged |
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TBC Posts: 134 |
posted 04-01-2005 03:46 PM
For what it's worth, it took me hours to post a simple shot of a clear hallmark...in the end I placed a magnifying glass over the mark and used a zoom lens...and, yes, I tried several lights...I think I ended up in our kitchen using the under cabinet lighting! So do bear with it because there is an art to taking pics of hallmarks! Good luck in your quest, and I'm delighted if I was of some help ....it's no more than many of the regulars gave me when I first came here and I thought then that the lease anyone who gets help can do is to help another. Rgds, TBC IP: Logged |
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gillian Posts: 5 |
posted 04-01-2005 03:56 PM
Thanks TCB......Tom? As you indicate, common decency has a role to play if any of these sites are to succeed, and one favour certainly deserves another. I can see i'm going to be spending the weekend like some demented photograper, but it'll all be put to a good use I hope. I can't thank you enough for your interest, and your help. best of luck in your own quest Gillian IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 04-01-2005 08:50 PM
Gillian, The problem may be your magnifying glass. A regular glass does not work well on small marks. A jeweler's eye piece or something called a cloth tester (fixed focal length, glass used to count number of threads in fine paper) works much better. They're not very expensive, but you may have to order it from an optiican. I think you will find a point in the middle of the rounded (sausage -great term!) end. I agree with TBC that 1917 is the best bet. Good luck, [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 04-01-2005).] IP: Logged |
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