Posts: 4
Registered: May 2005

posted 05-26-2005 01:10 PM            

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I own a silver brooch 4inches round with thistles all around it and what looks to be a military type patch on the top. I have identified most of it, it has the Britania mark, Scottish thistle mark, Edinburgh castle mark, and a stylized B for the year 1706. It's followed by the initials AGW or ACW and those are what I'm having a problem with. I've researched in the library and online but can find nothing on this person. Of course I didn't have access to alot of silver books available and hope someone out there has one with this information. Thanks for any help.

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posted 05-26-2005 02:00 PM            

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Hi Jo Jones,

Could you please post a picture.

I'm puzzled by your conclusion, because in 1706, the marks for Edinburgh were the Town Mark Castle; the Assay Maker's Mark and the Date Letter - no Britannia or thistle. Indeed, the thistle did not appear until 1759 and there's never been a Britannia mark for Edinburgh. Your mark might be a duty mark...without a picture, who can tell.

Please send picture

Rgds,

TBC

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posted 05-26-2005 04:36 PM            

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I would sooner guess that the brooch you describe dates to the mid 19th to early 20th century. Without actually seeing the piece, I can't be any more precise. Can you describe, or better yet picture, the brooch findings (pin hinge, pin catch)? Pictures of the brooch's design as well as marks would also be of great help.

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posted 05-26-2005 06:31 PM            

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I will get my husband to take a photo to post. As far as the information I gave, most of it was from Antiques finders in the UK and from another web site that had photo's of the marks that matched what I have. I also had taken it to an antique swap meet where they have appraisers who, for a price, tell you what you have. Unfortunately, the women had not brought her book with the UK makers marks in it. She did say it was from the 1700's though. Will try to post the photo tomorrow if I can. Thank you very much for such a quick responce.

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posted 05-27-2005 01:37 PM            

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Got some photos but they turned out too blurry with my son's camera, plus after reading the requirements for the photos they were too large anyway. I'll see if I can find someone with a better quality camera to use and post next week.

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posted 05-27-2005 02:23 PM            

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Hi there,

There is no possibilty that your brooch is of that date. The thistle mark was not introduced until 1759 in Edinburgh and the Brittania mark was never used as TBC said. There is an AGW listed for Edinburgh in the mid 19th century although I would guess your brooch is early 20th century as it also appears to lack a duty mark unless you have mistaken the "brittania" mark for a duty mark in which case it may be Victorian.

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posted 05-27-2005 03:45 PM            

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When you get your photo, do not worry about the image size on the camera as you can adjust it afterwards. Click on the link at the top of the any page here where it says "How to Post Photos" - you will see it just under the big green box. There are instructions there on resizing photos to meet the requirements of the forum.

Do you have any family history on your brooch or is it just something you purchased yourself? Often times family history gets quite garbled over time, but it can provide some clues that can help also.

I am also a bit puzzled by your description of it having a military patch adornment on top. Is this to say there is a military unit emblem superimposed overall or might it be a simple clan emblem along the top edge?
I look forward to seeing the photos to get an idea of what you have.

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posted 06-07-2005 02:28 PM            

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posted 06-07-2005 05:02 PM            

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Thanks for the pictures. I am sure your it was made in the 19th century. I shouldn't be surprised if the date letter "B" is actually for 1858-59. The construction, pin findings, and style are exactly what one would expect on a brooch from that time. A nice example of Victorian Scottish jewelry!

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posted 06-08-2005 11:54 AM            

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Can you please post a closeup of the hallmarks? I would not quibble with Paul's statement that 1859 looks to be appropriate but your images are too fuzzy to be sure and 1908 is a similar B datemark.

I would agree that a 1706 date is not realistic. The design of the broach and its pin on the back is certainly consistent with 1859, but it is likewise consistent with work still being done in 1908. The emblem at the top seems to be roughly based on the Order of the Thistle, though the center design is different. Most Scotland based British army regiments have such variations on this traditional military order - each with a different central design, though the central design on yours seems not to be any of these regimental insignia. My guess is that is more likely is was meant for the civilian market.

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posted 06-08-2005 01:19 PM            

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I am fairly certain the brooch was made for civilian use. Queen Victoria purchased a castle in Scotland-Balmoral-sometime in the 1840s. As a result, the jewelry-buying public fell in love with Scottish motifs. The most popular types of jewelry seemed to be "pebble" jewelry (which features stones like agate, bloodstone, jasper, etc. set into silver or gold mountings) and jewelry, like your pin, that incorporates motifs like coats of arms, regimental decoration, etc.

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