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Author	Topic: Maker's Mark
zaganos Posts: 18 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 12-02-2005 03:32 PM [26-0808] Hello, I have a silver pocket watch chain with a T bar. Every link is hallmarked with lion passant and on the t bar there is a maker's mark in a cameo as H.P . Even though there is also a lion passant no city mark is visible, but date letter is shown as either D or U. On link which connects t bar to the main body of the chain has anchor seal and this could be Birmingham. If it is Birmingham it can be dated to 1852 or 1865. I wonder if there was a maker with initials H.P matching to the dates. I made the image according to the instructions, but if there is something wrong sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks and regards, IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 12-03-2005 11:36 AM My understanding is that if there was no other town mark on a small item, it was probably made in London. I have never heard of hallmarks being split between two detachable parts of an item, but that does not mean it was never done. One piece may have been made separately and in a different time and place from the other. Absence of a duty mark (head of the reigning soverign) suggests the piece was made before 1784 or after 1890. We need to see the style of the letter and the shape of the punch in which it is set to be more precise. Although your picture is good, a close-up of the marks would help even more. If your camera does not allow a clear close-up, try cropping and enlarging an image of the marks from what you have. Good luck. Tom IP: Logged
zaganos Posts: 18 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 12-03-2005 06:14 PM Hello tmockait, Many thanks for your explanations and information. I think reigning mark is sometimes is not necessary for pre 1890 British silver since I have some silver watch cases in my collection, but lion passant, city mark and date letter exist. Thanks again for your kind reply. IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 12-03-2005 09:28 PM Ok, I can see the letter punch clearly. Read the letter as though it has the same orientation as the lion (top to bottom) is it a u or an n, capital or lower case? It is not that uncommon to have London items without the leopard's head town mark. I just bought a spoon in Europe with the just the lion and date letter. I am less sure if duty mark could have been eliminated. Also, do you have any information about the "providence" of the piece, ie where you got it and from whom. This information might help solve the riddle as well. Tom IP: Logged
zaganos Posts: 18 Registered: Apr 2005	posted 12-04-2005 10:37 AM Hello, Yes I know the provenance of the chain with bar , I bought from ebay, the seller was from Bristol, United Kingdom. The chain has come with a silver fusee pocket watch by Adam Burdess a prominent watch maker of late 19th century, the watch dates to 1889 and its hallmarks are complete with London, date and lion passant hallmarks. Also maker's mark is visible A.J.W. Arthur James Walker of Coventry, this is very plausible because Adam Burdess was a Coventry maker. I hope it helps. Best, IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 12-04-2005 12:48 PM Ok, since the capital D with the particular shape punch does not match either London or Birmingham marks for 1889, it is a good bet that the fob and chain were made at a different time and perhaps in a different place than the watch case. Our ancestors and the Brits to this day were not as hung up on things matching with one another. Without a close up or drawing of the marks, however, it will be hard to pin down when the fob was made. By the way, we all enjoying looking at everyone elses silver, so a picture of the watch and case would be great. Regards, Tom IP: Logged

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