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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Dublin maker's mark.
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| Author | Topic: Dublin maker's mark. |
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Leo Passant Posts: 24 |
posted 01-04-2006 03:07 AM
  
I have a spoon with the marks for Dublin 1803 and the maker's initials are JS. Can anyone here with a good book or knowledge tell me who the maker is please? ------------------
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 01-04-2006 10:55 AM
There is a spoon currently for sale on ebay with the same JS maker's mark and approximate date. Is that the one you are inquiring about? If so, please read the forum guidelines. If not, it sure seems like a heck of a coincidance. IP: Logged |
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Leo Passant Posts: 24 |
posted 01-04-2006 06:48 PM
I see the spoon you mention, but no, I I already own a set of spoons marked JS. Any constructive help out there? IP: Logged |
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jersey Posts: 1203 |
posted 01-04-2006 11:16 PM
Hi Leo! Just a pure guess but have you checked for a John Smyth in Dublin in the 1880's? Hope this helps. Jersey IP: Logged |
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Leo Passant Posts: 24 |
posted 01-04-2006 11:48 PM
Hello Jersey and thanks for the reply. I did think of all the obvious names such as John Smyth/Smith, but couldn't find any reference specifically to the beginning of the 19th C. There appear to have been several John Smiths productive in Dublin in the third and fourth quarters of the 19th C and early 20th C, but I doubt any of them could have been working for more than 30 years. I also Googled slightly more obscure names like John/James Stephens, John/James Sloan etc, but nothing relevant comes up, hence my post here. IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 01-05-2006 12:05 AM
My apologies Leo. I would be very interested in seeing a photo of your spoon, since I have a Dublin spoon from 1774. Thanks and Happy New Year, IP: Logged |
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Leo Passant Posts: 24 |
posted 01-05-2006 12:28 AM
Apology accepted. My excuse for a camera won't take macro shots (I'm on the market for a new digital camera at the moment), but the marks are as follows: Date letters G, H and I, the harp, crowned and Hibernia, followed by J.S - all in long octagonal marks. IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 01-05-2006 08:40 AM
I was more interested in the style. Mine proved much harder to date, because the maker's mark was obliterated and it has no date letter. Search under "Dublin spoon" on the British forum for a lenght discussion of the piece. The thread contains references to useful works and a post by a couple of members who are most knowledgeable on Irish silver. Hope this helps, IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 01-05-2006 12:20 PM
Photographs are needed for accurate identification of marks. As has been suggested, try photographing through a magnifying glass; if you cannot make a photo of the marks, a drawing can be helpful. IP: Logged |
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salmoned Posts: 336 |
posted 01-05-2006 04:49 PM
John Shields is listed in Jackson's with a mark that may be similar to the one you've inadequately 'described'. However, he is listed as becoming 'free' in 1762, with a Last Notice of Death in 1784. Which is not to say that his wife may not have continued the business using his mark, eh? [Only the wildest of 'Pot Shots'!] [This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 01-05-2006).] IP: Logged |
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Leo Passant Posts: 24 |
posted 01-05-2006 06:25 PM
I must say, some of the attitudes on this forum appear highly elitist, extremely rude and somewhat intimidating. Not exactly conducive to attracting new members and not what I would have expected from such a genteel pursuit! I thought my recount of the marks was quite descriptive; nonetheless, I sketched the marks and asked a friend to scan them, only to discover that this forum has no means of hosting pictures. All in all, my first post here has not been a pleasant occurrence; I thought that conversing with other like-minded folk would have been an enjoyable experience and not the difficult task it has been. IP: Logged |
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IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 01-05-2006 09:26 PM
Hi, Leo, and welcome to the forum. Please don't take offense at the efforts of our members to keep Silver Salon Forums a pleasant and commercially neutral arena for discussion. I remember a time not too long ago, when each of the forums were inundated by posts from persons seeking information for their own personal and commercial gain. While the rest of us tried to carry out meaningful and insightful exchange of thoughts about various aspects of the topic, we had to wade through repeated postings from new members asking about values, or identifications of items that they were either selling or thinking about buying. That is not the purpose of these forums, yet to this very day, we are visited by individuals who try to abuse the forums. We welcome all who earnestly wish to learn more about the fascinating world of silver. However, when a new member inquires about an item that resembles another item currently offered for sale, it raises a warning flag. It would be irresponsible to jump the gun and instantly assume that such a member is misusing this forum. Keeping that in mind, when tmockait noticed a very similar spoon for sale at auction, he very politely asked, "Is that (spoon) the one you are inquiring about? If so, please read the forum guidelines. If not, it sure seems like a heck of a coincidence." I believe that it was a reasonable question, and that his concern and that of most other SSF members is in now way "elitist", "rude", or "intimidating". Have you read the "Read Before You Post" passage, and the SSF Guidelines? We have tried to emphasize the importance of making your intentions perfectly clear to us. I would suggest to all new members that they introduce themselves, tell us a little especially about their interest in silver, and feel free to be as friendly as they would in any other situation where a person enters a close-knit community, because in many ways that's what SSF is. We all hope to welcome you to the forums, and hope to gain another frequent participant in you, and any other new visitor. P.S. Posting images is actually not very difficult at all. Many websites allow you to upload photographs for free, and writing links to those images takes just a few seconds. Instructions are fully explained in "How to Post Photos", which may be viewed via links from the Guidelines, which all new members should read before posting, and from nearly every page within the Forums. Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with them. [This message has been edited by IJP (edited 01-05-2006).] IP: Logged |
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outwest Posts: 390 |
posted 01-05-2006 11:31 PM
I must say that I read through the posts on this thread again and can see no one being elitist. The people here are intelligent, opinionated, learned and altogether an interesting bunch. It seems like people have been polite to me. It is refreshing to know that someone cares enough to make it a nice forum to participate in. I am sorry the original poster felt people were being elitist. It does seem a strange coincidence to have a like spoon on an auction site and I don't think that was an inappropriate question. It can be disconcerting to have your photos snipped, but I understand the need for that. To the moderators: [This message has been edited by outwest (edited 01-05-2006).] IP: Logged |
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tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 01-06-2006 12:00 AM
I echo all the sentiments stated here, but I can understand how Leo feels, which is why I apologized for any offense I might have caused with the tone of my question. Too many perspective members (but by no means the majority) have taken advantage of the expertise freely given for personal profit, which has made us a bit defensive sometimes. I agree with the concern about photo instructions. They are hard for novices to follow, but so are most camera and computer instructions. They remind me of calculus proofs in High School. At the end of a lengthy, incomprehensible proof, the author would write, "obviously we you can see . . ." - which I seldom did. Perhaps some one should take a stab at simplifying them - the forum masters have enough to do, so it should be some one else. One finally thought, my experience has been that electronic communication is very prone to misunderstanding. There should be some level of trust here that we are all acting in good faith and that if we occasionally sound, abrupt, terse, or whatever, that is not our intent. All the best, IP: Logged |
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TBC Posts: 134 |
posted 01-06-2006 11:03 AM
Hello Leo Passant. Without a picture of the marks it is not possible to say with certainty who your "JS" maker is. Several JS's are listed in Jackson's for the period; however, the marks/outline/periods are all relevant to determining the maker and distinguishing it from other JS's. If you manage to post a picture I would be happy to check my reference books for you. Tom IP: Logged |
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FWG Posts: 845 |
posted 01-06-2006 02:05 PM
And Bennett's Irish Georgian Silver lists over a half-dozen potential JS makers in Dublin for that period. The only such mark shown there is for John Sheils, J [pellet] S in a clipped-corner rectangle, but he became a freeman in 1762 and was listed in directories only for 1783-5 so is not too likely. IP: Logged |
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Leo Passant Posts: 24 |
posted 01-06-2006 02:53 PM
Thank you all for the reasurances. I will be purchasing a digital camera within the next week or so and will endeavour to take a few images of the marks then and upload the results. IP: Logged |
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TBC Posts: 134 |
posted 01-06-2006 06:06 PM
Hi FWG. I'd agree John Shields is unlikely; for me, the smart money must be on J. Salter (Cork) noted in Jackson's in 1820 in respect of a table-spoon. Let's see what the picture shows! Best rgds to all. Tom IP: Logged |
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salmoned Posts: 336 |
posted 01-08-2006 04:52 PM
Well, you failed to mention the font of the letters as well as any distinguishing characteristics (defects or irregularities, size of mark, margin dimensions, etc.). In fact, the first mention of a pellet and frame is in your fourth post to this thread. A precise description may lead to a precise attribution, but an imprecise description usually leads nowhere. Also, I don't believe this forum is interested in attracting any and all, but rather a certain quality of member. For instance, members with only a commercial interest are not welcomed. A recollection - my first posting for mark ID was derided for not having a photo, but I persevered with a complete description. I later borrowed a digital camera, uploaded on someone else's computer (my archaic system has no camera interface capability), saved the image following the posted instructions on a free hosting service, then posted it on the forum. However, my prior description was sufficiently complete that no further differentiation was forthcoming and I was left with a few possible makers. [This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 01-08-2006).] IP: Logged |
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Leo Passant Posts: 24 |
posted 01-08-2006 06:01 PM
I still haven't managed a photo of my spoons, but I have uncovered the following supportive photos and attributions for John Shiels whose mark and cartouche style exactly match those on my spoons. Lot 187 http://www.bexfield.co.uk/thefinial/v14-02/pg20.htm The last attribution is for a John Shields (with a "d") which may be a typing mistake on the behalf of the author. IP: Logged |
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