What are these - SMP Silver Salon Forums

SM Publications

Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.

SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate.

Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look.

How to Post Photos

Want to be a Moderator?

SMP Silver Salon Forums
tline

British / Irish Sterling
tline3

What are these

profile | register | preferences | faq | search

SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone!

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Author	Topic: What are these
obnock Posts: 27 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 02-08-2006 03:02 PM [26-0892] I have always thought these are salts. They are approx three inches high and have a removable tops. They have a destinctive star patterned holes on the lid. A friend surgested they are for pepper or perhaps nutmeg, so this started me thinking, can anybody out there give me a definitive answer. Hallmarks F.B.T. for Francis Booth Thomas, London 1882/83. The FBT has been added over the initials RS perhaps Robert Sharp but that seems to contradict the date, so i'm hoping someone can help. Sorry for the poor photo but I think you can see them Ok IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 02-08-2006 03:21 PM obnock, Casters of that general sort were made for sugar, sand, pepper, and later salt; at 3 inches, these were most likely originally intended for pepper (salt would have been served in a dish, generally glass-lined, with a small spoon). Salt causes accelerated corrosion on silver, and should never be left in contact with the metal. I believe the use of shakers for salt is mostly a later 20th-century phenomenon, related to the declining formality of dining (especially in the US), and the declining cost of salt, and its increased uniformity in size and rise of fine granulated versions. IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 02-09-2006 07:04 PM Are the Holes in the lids uniform for both pieces, or is one set larger... than the other? "Smaug" IP: Logged
PhilO Posts: 166 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 02-10-2006 03:45 AM Your "RS" was probably Richard Sibley, the third of that name (grandfather, father, son), whose mark was entered at Goldsmiths Hall in 1880. F B Thomas & Co, as well as making their own pieces, were a large retailer so presumably overstamped bought-in silver with their own mark. Phil IP: Logged
obnock Posts: 27 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 02-10-2006 10:25 AM In answer to smaug the holes are identical in size forming a six pointed star.Interestingly on the underside one has the number 2 imprinted and the other number 4, does this surggest that there would be perhaps six or eight? maybe one shaker for each diner. There is a heraldic crest on each with the motto Denique coelum / Rege et patria. This I have discovered is the crest of the important scottish Melville clan, and the mottos mean "heaven at last" / " King and Country". Any thoughts? IP: Logged
t-man-nc Posts: 327 Registered: Mar 2000	posted 02-14-2006 04:55 PM I was wondering about the holes as pepper shakers tend to have larger holes than salt or at least that is what it appears from the examples I have seem, the other thought was a "Blotting" material for ink (Sand, Talk etc.) also tends to be larger holes, but the numbers you mention, make me think they are a set as you indicated.... "Smaug" IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1652 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 02-15-2006 09:31 AM I would tend to think more along the lines of sand shakers used as a common desk accessory back when people used inkwells. You would sprinkle a bit of sand on your writing paper and give the paper a little jiggle to move it around so that it would would quickly blot up any wet ink so you wouldn't have to wait several minutes for it to finish drying on its own. My reasoning is that there are way too many holes and they cover such a wide expanse that were they salt or pepper shakers you would get a huge amount of salt or pepper with each shake. You might try an experiment and load them up with salt and pepper and see how much comes out with a good shake or two. Finally, you always need to take engravings such as coats of arms with a grain of salt, or perhaps grain of sand might be more appropriate. Engravings can be added by anyone at any time after an object is made. The ones on your shakers could have been added at the time they were purchased by someone with an affiliation with that particular clan, or they could have been added at some later point. IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 02-15-2006 01:54 PM They seem small for sanders, but you're certainly right about the number of holes. If they were mine I know what I'd use them for: powdered sugar, for dusting pastries. Mmmm.... IP: Logged
obnock Posts: 27 Registered: Mar 2005	posted 02-15-2006 01:55 PM Experiment compleated, they are very efficient at spinkling both salt and sand, perhaps too much delivered. So I'm tempted to go for the pepperette. In the victorian days did the dinning table have ground pepper? unlike today when most tables use pepper grinders.Would the houses purchase ground pepper? or would it be ground in house?. IP: Logged
Daddy-o Posts: 24 Registered: Feb 2006	posted 02-17-2006 11:10 PM The star looks to me like the star of David. Could they be Judaica used ceremonially? ------------------ Daddy-o IP: Logged

All times are ET	next newest topic \| next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic \| Archive/Move \| Delete Topic
	Hop to:

Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a

^1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

^2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

^3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.

| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver