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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Here's a weird one!
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| Author | Topic: Here's a weird one! |
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Brent Posts: 1507 |
posted 12-22-2009 07:13 PM
  
    Here's a piece I had to buy just because of the marks. I looks like a nice early-mid 20th C silverplate compote with grape edges, grille-work body and stepped foot.It is definitely silverplate, with copper showing through at one edge. The marks though: H in a shield, Gothic G in a circle, and a reasonable facsimile of the maker's mark of Peter, Ann & William Bateman What do all think? A deliberate fiddle to fool some dope? A "Reproduction"? Who, When, Why? Brent IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 12-23-2009 09:32 AM
Weird indeed! Neither the piece itself nor the marks (with or without the "Bateman" bit)look particularly English to me. It seems to me as if the Bateman mark may be a later addition rather than part of the original marking, so perhaps you are right to suspect an attempt to deceive. After all, the Bateman marks do seem to have a cachet that I am not sure they deserve. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 12-23-2009 01:10 PM
Looks like someone stamped some "interesting" marks on a piece of metal and soldered it on, would suspect that there was intention to deceive. Many folks are just enamored of any kind of marks - years ago a friend bought a lot of silver from a self-taught "jeweler", there were some nice pieces, but also a very heavy "tested as sterling" tankard, simple tapered form, bearing an impressive crowned VR, a number and initials near the lip, nothing I could say would convince her that it was a late Victorian silverplated British pub mug. ~Cheryl IP: Logged |
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Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 |
posted 12-23-2009 06:43 PM
An interesting thing. The comment that "It is definitely silverplate, with copper showing through at one edge. " is perhaps significant . Copper is I believe exceedingly difficult to plate, certainly by electrolysis.Only the Old Sheffield plate process, by a pressure sandwich by rooling thin silver is this normally achieved. I am no expert but could this actually be a Regency period item ? The worst of the rococo revival pieces of the early 1800's are pretty odd. I cannot believe that anyone would hope to deceive by the method of adding a plate with Bateman marks. Anyone being savvy enough to know such a mark is not going to be fooled. No Lion Passant so the piece is legal. My own guess it - perhaps actually retailed by the Bateman factory and marked by them. Certainly I've seen buckles in base metals marked with a silversmiths silver punch. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 12-23-2009 07:51 PM
Actually copper is carries a current very well and plates easily. One reason it was not used much is that it should not be in contact with food and will pit when exposed to acid in food. Brittania metal was a new improved pewter that could interact with food safely. Plus, many of the early platers were pewterers not silversmiths. I would agree that the marks were added later. Great piece still. IP: Logged |
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chase33 Posts: 362 |
posted 12-23-2009 11:03 PM
ok, so what is this piece? a fruit bowl? IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 12-24-2009 07:57 AM
the grape edge reminds me of a lot of the late 19 - early 20c grape patterns. IP: Logged |
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Marc Posts: 414 |
posted 12-24-2009 10:37 PM
Hi Brent.. What are the dimensions.. Chances are that it had a glass liner at one time.. Nice smooth sides. Fine form. Good lines.. Sounds like we're talking about horses!. Merry Chrismaka everyone!. Marc IP: Logged |
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