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G with crown hallmark

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Author	Topic: G with crown hallmark
victoriaht Posts: 14 Registered: Feb 2006	posted 04-22-2006 12:04 AM [26-1021] I need help identifying a maker's mark. Definitely English -- lion passant (or gardant) and unidentifiable regent's head -- the maker's marks are: R.G in block letters and a block G with a crown on top. I'd love to think it's Robert Garrard, but I've only seen Garrard marks with script RG and crown on top. I know you always like photos, but in this case the marks really are exactly as described. Any help appreciated. ------------------ IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 04-22-2006 01:02 AM Hi Victoria, I am bit confused by the description. Is the crown on the G or in its own punch? The later would be the town mark for Sheffield? Is the lion crowned? Also, can you tell which way the soverign's head is facing and if it is a man or a woman? Yes, photos or drawings are important for an id, but also because we would all like to see the item! Tom [This message has been edited by tmockait (edited 04-22-2006).] IP: Logged
victoriaht Posts: 14 Registered: Feb 2006	posted 04-22-2006 02:36 AM Thank you, Tom. The G is wearing a crown. As you look at the regent's head, it's facing your right. The lion is not crowned. I think perhaps you're thinking of the leopard's head, which is crowned on early pieces made in London. This piece has no town mark. Just the four, each in its own square or oval: lion (either passant or guardant, hard to tell the position), regent's head, crowned G, and R.G (Sorry about the photo, but my digital camera is not working at present.) Victoria ------------------ IP: Logged
PhilO Posts: 166 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 04-22-2006 03:27 AM This sounds like the mark for Sheffield 1804/1805. From 1780 to 1853 the Sheffield assay office used a combined assay office / date letter punch for smaller items, presumably to cut down on the area required to apply the hallmark. I am not sure who RG was. One candidate would have been Robert Gainsford, but his mark was not registered until 1808. Please bear in mind, though, that without a picture this is all speculative. In the absence of your camera can you draw and scan a picture of the marks? Phil IP: Logged
victoriaht Posts: 14 Registered: Feb 2006	posted 04-22-2006 04:19 AM This is my first stab at trying the photo thing: If I've done it wrong, someone please tell me how! IP: Logged
victoriaht Posts: 14 Registered: Feb 2006	posted 04-22-2006 04:52 AM oh, Philo! Thank you so much! How could I have forgotten that sometimes Sheffield put their town mark on top of the date letters? It absolutely is Sheffield 1804. Still don't know the maker, but occasionally that is the case. Could have been some RG long lost in the sands of time. ------------------ IP: Logged
tmockait Posts: 963 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 04-22-2006 10:38 AM Oops, yes I did mena the leopard. The soverign would be George III. Interesting set of marks. Tom IP: Logged
IJP Posts: 326 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 04-22-2006 06:40 PM Ah, Tom, you should have kept that poker face and stiff upper lip. Lion, leopard, in this case it's all the same (but you knew that). I quote your own post from the Why a lion? Why a leopard? thread: quote: As I understand it the "leopard's" head is actually a lion, so we are taling about one question not two. The reason these symbols were chosen has little to do with silver and much to do with royalty. The lion as a symbol of royalty has roots as old as the book of Genesis. "Judah is a lion's whelp . . . the scepter shall not depart from Judah." Richard I, one of England's most famous warrior monarchs, was dubbed "lion hearted." The lion was the symbol of the English crown, so it became the logical mark for royal assayers to put on silver. The lion passant also graces the royal standard flown over Buckingham palace when the queen is in residence. Since Westminster was emerging as the capital, using a lion's head as the hallmark for London also made sense. Here's a reply from Clive E Taylor in the same thread: quote: How a leopard got into the it one should be explained that a Leopart or Leopard is the heraldic term for a Lion (leo) passant . The reason why he became uncrowned in 1821 (head) on the London town mark and merely passant, (looking forward to the left ) instead of passant guardant ,(looking over his left shoulder at you)on the London assay mark is ,as far as I know, still a total mystery. IP: Logged

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