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English Cup

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Author	Topic: English Cup
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 10-25-2005 10:05 PM [01-2348] A friend of mine brought me this cup to see if I knew anything about it. I said that I would post it here, as all I could tell her was that it was a nice piece of 19th century English electroplate and that the makers mark being TL & EM, it was probably Thomas Latham & Ernest Morton of Birmingham. I don't know what the crest signifies or what the Latin inscription means. It reads, "HAEC STUDIA OBLECTANT". Any information would be appreciated. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 10-26-2005 06:26 AM *HAEC STUDIA OBLECTANT* *haec* - this; these *studia* - eagerness, enthusiasm, zeal, spirit; devotion, pursuit, study; *oblectant* - delight, please, amuse; *haec* haec: (fem. sing. nom.) THIS (sword) is more expensive. hic haec (hec ) hoc : this, the latter / he, she, it. *studia* studio : (+ dat.) to study, pursue eagerly, be eager for. studiose : eagerly. studium : eagerness, zeal. *oblectant* obligatus : bound, under an obligation. obliquo : to turn sideways, turn aside. oblittero : to cancel, blot out. oblivio : forgetfulness, oblivion. v ant they see, they do see, they are seeing v ant they might see, should they see. IP: Logged
Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 Registered: May 2003	posted 10-26-2005 02:17 PM Although the crest doesn't seem to be one of the Oxford University colleges, I wonder if the three crowns might be a reference to the university, and together with the ambiguously worded motto, might suggest the cup belonged to some student drinking society. IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 10-26-2005 04:01 PM My immediate reaction also was that it looked like a university shield, and although I don't recognize it specifically I don't think it's an Oxford shield. Three crowns are a fairly commonly used element in heraldry. A student society is an excellent guess; if it were a university motto -- unlikely as that would be, given the text, but just for the sake of argument -- it would almost certainly come up in a search of the internet. Which, of course, this text does not. And it could be a play on a line from Cicero's Pro Archia Poeta, which is still widely read in Latin classes and formerly was even more widely read: Haec studia adulescentiam alunt, senectutem oblectant, secundas res ornant, adversis perfugium ac solacium praebent. [These pursuits nourish youth, delight old age, embellish prosperity, afford a refuge and comfort in adversity.] [This message has been edited by FWG (edited 10-26-2005).] IP: Logged
Dale Posts: 2132 Registered: Nov 2002	posted 10-26-2005 11:19 PM This might also be a trophy of some sort. Or, and looking at it a bit more, this may be the work of someone who was learning and mastering engraving. The engraving is done by hand, I would say, and rather well done. It may be someone showing off his skill by making something that looked suitably medieval. Nice goblet, thanks for showing it. IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2377 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 10-27-2005 10:29 AM I have always been curious as to how engraving was accomplished on silver plated items. One engraver I have spoken to said he did not engrave silver plated items as any engraving would go to the base metal and would not look right. Could an item be engraved first and then plated or is there some other way to accomplish the engraving? IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 10-27-2005 11:33 AM quote: Could an item be engraved first and then plated or is there some other way to accomplish the engraving? If it is hand-done,it could have been plated over the engraving. The way it was done with Old Sheffield plate was to inset a section of silver as a platform on which to do the engraving. IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 10-27-2005 12:35 PM True for the best but not all Sheffield Plate; I've seen some engraved through to copper -- and I seem to remember reading somewhere that, at least at some time by some people, it was considered desirable for the copper to show through. I've always assumed that some pieces were plated after engraving (I've also seen some plated after assembly, so that the solder lines were plated over, although it seems more typical to see the solder above the plating). On the Sheffield pieces that had an inset plaque I've seen some where you can see the color difference between the inset sterling piece and the pure silver plating -- but others where you couldn't, so either they were plated after the inset, or the polish and/or patination just weren't right to be able to see that subtle distinction. IP: Logged
salmoned Posts: 336 Registered: Jan 2005	posted 10-27-2005 02:51 PM So I gather the gist of the inscription is 'The study of drink delights'. [This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 10-27-2005).] IP: Logged
FWG Posts: 845 Registered: Aug 2005	posted 10-27-2005 05:27 PM More or less; I'd give it as 'This study delights' -- and personally I'd read that with emphasis on the first word -- so in context \|drink delights\| or \|wine delights\| would be quite appropriate. My reading would be more that sort of direct connection, rather than the 'study of' more intellectualized form. Makes me want to go out and order some customized glasses.... IP: Logged
Patrick Vyvyan Posts: 640 Registered: May 2003	posted 10-27-2005 11:20 PM Returning to the translation, I feel there is also an implied negative: These studies (i.e. drinking)delight (while others, for example law, theology, maths etc., do not). Hence my suggestion of a university drinking club! I work in a university, so believe me I know the sentiment!!!!! IP: Logged
Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 Registered: Aug 2000	posted 11-21-2005 09:21 AM I have returned the cup to its owner and she was very pleased with the information received here. Thanks to all. IP: Logged
Clive E Taylor Posts: 450 Registered: Jul 2000	posted 11-21-2005 05:01 PM There are basically three types of plating. Close plate where a very thin layer of silver (almost as a foil) was applied to a base metal (usually ferrous), object. This would probably be done after engraving. Technique used only on very cheap items after 1800. Replaced by electroplate Sheffield Plate. Thin sheets of copper and silver laminated under pressure. Cannot be done after engraving, and because of thinness rarely done after lamination. As FWG remarked usually a piece of thicker plating was normally let in after lamination, then engraved. Electoplate. Solution of silver deposited onto base of, usually nickle steel. Normally so thin that it could be deposited onto engraving, but often done over plating as well for individual owners. IP: Logged
IJP Posts: 326 Registered: Oct 2004	posted 11-22-2005 10:55 AM As to the engraving of silver-plated items, I know an engraver who is asked from time to time to engrave, for example, a silver-plated tray or some other such thing. It can be done, but from what I understand it's difficult, and somewhat dangerous (to the piece, if not to the engraver). The way I understand it, as one cuts into the silver, if one should penetrate to the copper (or other metal) underneath, the difference in hardness is significant, and it is not uncommon for the graver to then slide across the surface of the base metal and leave an irreversible scratch in the silver. Hence, my engraver friend winds up spending much more time and special care when working on silver-plated objects, which thankfully is seldome. He charges the same rate per letter, sterling or plated, but I've told him he really should come up with a better way to compensate himself for the time he spends with engraving on silver-plate. IP: Logged

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