posted 11-22-2008 11:50 AM            

I was very happy finding this site. I am fairly new to collecting silver and have been focusing on aesthetic flatware both sterling and plate (Is that an anathema?)such as the various Japanese inspired patterns by Whiting, Gorham etc. I also am drawn to more ornate "classical" patterns featuring shell motifs such as Whiting's "Imperial Queen" and "King Edward". These vases I posted here just caught my eye and appeal to my more classical side. I am usually quite good at finding information about pieces. marks etc. but have not been able to for these vases. Hence, my post. Thank you for any information.

posted 11-22-2008 11:55 AM            

Nice photos & good job posting the photos.

Thank for updating your post with the info about your interests.

posted 11-23-2008 06:15 AM            

I've looked at internet and I also have to look in the books. What I've found until now is that I suppose they are made in England.

There are a few E.P.N.S. factories who used the french lilly?(in a shield or other formed mark stamps). All these factories started in the fourth quarter of the 19 century.

A few names like Jonathan Bell&Son, Joseph Gilbert, Deykim & Harrison, Daniel & Arter and of course many others but I hope your vases are from a factory from Sheffield or Birmingham. The other mark (star on a block in a shield) that's the most difficult one to find. I hope it's not a symbol which is used by a factory. Sometimes these symbols are used like a star, eagle etc. but that is a question from my side. About the vases the pattern is beautiful but which style is this Jugendstil, Art nouveau or Art deco that's my question about these two.
Meanwhile I searching for more information.

posted 11-24-2008 07:09 PM            

What years of handling this sort of thing have taught me is the maker is probably unknowable. We can get close but we can't get all the way there. My personal guess is that it is the mark of the owner of the dies these were stamped from. One of the hidden practices of the silverplate trade was for retailers, wholesalers and jobbers to own design rights and pattern dies. I can trace this at least as far back as the 1890's. What they sought to do was produce a 'unified' style that could be sold for people looking for a 'look'.

This meant that there would be silverplate, china, glass, maybe even wall sconces and chandeliers that use this motif. When I looked at your vases, it struck me how much they resemble pattern glass.

Anyway, what this means is that these could have been made by any maker. The item was put up for bid. The winning bidder received the dies, produced, and then returned the dies to the owner. The pieces were shipped to some warehouse that the owner had, and then sent to his customers.

By style I can see this being sold as Moorish, Art Nouveau, Art Deco and maybe some kind of 60's Flower Power. The main cost of producing silverplate is the dies. So, it was in the interests of all involved to make things that would be current for long periods of time. I suspect these had a retail life of over 80 years.

A further consideration is that frequently the produced number had no real relationship to the expected sales. So, a large quantity was made. The expected sales number would be plated by the maker. The rest would be 'in the metal' and unplated. They would be returned to the owner. He then kept them, waiting for a new opportunity.

posted 11-24-2008 07:15 PM            

There are two silverplate patterns that we can prove were owned by firms. Orange Blossom was owned by Sunkist; Cream of Wheat by the cereal company. And one can see the traces of different platers on them, indicating a series of plate jobs.

Hope this clears things up somewhat.

posted 11-24-2008 07:33 PM            

No matter their origin or lack there of, the pair still appeal to me especially with flowers on a well set table.