SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate.

Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look.

How to Post Photos

Want to be a Moderator?
customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  British / Irish Sterling
tline3open  Whip End Spoons of the 18th Century

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Whip End Spoons of the 18th Century
agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 02-01-2017 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[08-0890]

I’ve already shown some of the following spoons in other threads but a recent purchase tempts me to pull them together in a single topic. Whip end salt spoons from the 18th century are not particularly unusual. Like many small items from this period they are normally unmarked. Here is a little group of three alongside a Victorian intruder.



From left to right we have:


    - basic whip end shape, unmarked, mid 18th century,
    - variant with twisted stem, unmarked, mid 18th century,
    - variant with whip curling in other direction and an improbable kink forming a heart shape,
    - the Victorian intruder by William Dudley, Birmingham, 1849, here just to show that the form re-emerged with the rococo revival.

None of these spoons is anything very special. I have them simply to illustrate one form of condiment spoon. The whip end form is, however, extremely rare for other types of spoon. I doubt whether it was ever used for dessert, table or larger serving spoons. You might come across a teaspoon example once in a blue moon. It might not surprise you that I could not resist a singleton that came up for sale recently, particularly as it was a match for my favourite silver gilt rococo mote spoon. Here they are side by side.


The design and workmanship is of much higher quality than that of the salt spoons. The two spoon bowls are clearly from the same mould. Neither spoon is marked but I am inclined to think they are earlier rather than later, i.e. pre 1750.

The teaspoon has the simplest form of stem and whip end. The very few other examples I know of have more decoration on the stem. Anyhow, I am delighted to have the new spoon both as an example of a rare pattern and as a mate for my mote spoon.

IP: Logged

Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11573
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 02-01-2017 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very nice. Thanks for sharing.

You say "clearly from the same mould".

They look dye struck not cast.

Also the marks in the bowl look like they were nicely done. Seeing a closeup might be fun.

Again thanks for sharing your treasures with us.

IP: Logged

asheland

Posts: 935
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 02-01-2017 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Splendid spoons!

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2377
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 02-01-2017 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting post on a pattern I had never seen before. I don't know much about whips, but did the name come from the actual look of a whip?
I did see on one site that the bowls were cast on his spoons. Was that typical?
Thanks for all your interesting posts.

IP: Logged

agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 02-01-2017 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To pick up on some of the points that have been mentioned, I see this shape of spoon variously described as “whip”, “whiplash” or “whip end”, presumably because the loop at the end of the slim stem is thought to resemble the sort of whip that might be carried by a coachman or carriage driver. It seems to be a modern name for the spoons and I don’t think anybody knows how they might have been described when they were first made.

As to whether the bowls were cast or die struck, the decoration on most English spoons of the period was die struck. One exception was the naturalistic or foliate form of rococo spoon. I assumed cast in the case of this pair partly because there is some relationship to the naturalistic rococo style but more particularly because of the way the moulding that rises from the bowls wraps round the stems. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t look die struck to me. I certainly wouldn’t want to generalise from the example of this particular pair, however.

I assume it is the piercing of the mote spoon that caught Scott’s eye. It is indeed finely done. Knowing my ineptitude with the camera I have cheated a bit. Rather than taking a new close-up I have simply cropped the existing pictures to show just the bowl.


I hope this has magnified the detail of the fancy piercing of what is quite a small bowl rather than make my lack of focus or camera shake more obvious.

IP: Logged

June Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 1343
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 02-01-2017 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for June Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Beautiful spoons. Was not familiar with whip end form so it is great to see.

IP: Logged

agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 05-10-2017 05:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Apologies for returning to a topic that I have probably already done to death but my interest was re-awakened by something I spotted in a recently acquired book, “Silver for Entertaining, the Ickworth Collection” by James Rothwell. Ickworth, now a British National Trust property, is the former home of the Hervey family, Earls and later Marquesses of Bristol. Unusually, the family silver has remained with the property. The heart of the book is a catalogue of this silver. Fascinating because it shows how the silver of one aristocratic family was amassed over time.

One entry that caught my eye was for the 12 unmarked salt spoons that were associated with a set of saltcellars of 1752 by Frederick Kandler, so presumably of the same date and possibly also by him.

My scan of the illustration may be a bit hazy but I think you can see that, as well as another version of the whiplash stem, we have bowls that, although smaller and more worn, are the same pattern as those on my tea and mote spoons. It is a bit tenuous to think I can therefore link the tea and mote spoons to Kandler as well, but it probably helps date them and place them firmly at the top end of the market at the time they were made.

Meanwhile, I have picked up another rather worn salt spoon with yet another variant of the stem. I probably would not have bothered if I had not started on this thread and thus found myself thinking about the pattern as I looked through the stock of a dealer friend. I blame the forum for tempting me into expenditure.


[This message has been edited by agphile (edited 05-10-2017).]

IP: Logged

asheland

Posts: 935
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 05-10-2017 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very nice indeed!

IP: Logged

ahwt

Posts: 2377
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 05-10-2017 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the new pictures. Those are interesting spoons and I have asked several silver dealers that I know if they had like spoons. To their credit they knew what I was talking about, but they did not have any or remember having any in their inventory. I think in the states they would be considered a fairly rare item.

[This message has been edited by ahwt (edited 05-10-2017).]

IP: Logged

agphile

Posts: 798
Registered: Apr 2008

iconnumber posted 05-15-2017 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for agphile     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the kind comments. I've been away for a few days. Hence the delay in responding.

As regards rarity, if I wanted another mid 18th century condiment spoon in this style it probably wouldn't take me too long to find one here in the UK. However,it is unlikely that there would be more than one or two examples on the market at the same time.

If I wanted another teaspoon, on the other hand, I might have to wait years or even decades. And, as I mentioned earlier, I doubt whether any larger spoons in this style were ever made.

Of course, most pieces of the period will have been straightforward Hanoverian pattern.And I wonder whether the slim stems of these whiplash types made them more vulnerable to damage so that an even smaller proportion of them has survived.

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2022 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices