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Author Topic:   30 Pieces of Silver
IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 04-15-2006 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-2420]

It may be a little off-topic, but I was more than a little surprised at the headlines the other week about the release of the long-lost Gospel of Judas. I read the English translation of the Coptic manuscript, but I found the language of the gospel to be a little heavy on mysticism, compared to the books of the Canon. Nonetheless, it does raise some interesting ideas and speculations.

This is hardly the place to get into a theological-philosophical exchange, but it had always perplexed me just how much money Judas accepted for the betrayal of Jesus. Most sources agree that the 30 pieces of silver were Tyrian shekels.


        Tyrian Shekel

This particular example was minted about 90 B.C. The obverse displays the profile of the Phoenician god Melqarth with a laurel wreath and lion's skin. The reverse displays an eagle, and bears the phrase
TYPOYIEPAΣ KAIAΣYΛOY
(translated "Of Tyre, the holy and inviolable")

Interestingly enough, one source says that while images of gods were forbidden at the Jerusalem Temple, for some reason the Tyrian shekel with the image of Melqarth was commonly used there as currency.

But how much were 30 of these shekels worth in (approx.) 32 A.D.? In Chapter 21, Verse 32, the Book of Exodus rules that the owner of an ox must pay that amount to the master of any slave, male or female, that is gored by the ox.

But the events of Exodus date to somewhere between the 15th and 13th centuries B.C. Is it safe to assume that 30 shekels was worth roughly the same between that time and the Crucifixion? Must we account for inflation? ...Just kidding.

To clarify things, it would be nice if I could find a contemporaneous reference in the New Testament which cites the cost of, say, a 2-pound fish or a quart of dates. It's unfortunate that the Big Mac Index is useless in this instance.

Some Informative Links:

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IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 04-16-2006 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many sources also call the Tyrian shekel a tetradrachma. This is equal in value to four drachmae. According to one source, a drachma, like the silver denarius, was commonly paid as a single day's wages for a day laborer. One might assume, then, that Judas accepted perhaps the equivalent of 120 days' wages (30 times 4).

So let's say that by today's U.S. standards, a day laborer might make fifty dollars a day. By that estimate, Judas would have betrayed Jesus for $6000. This sounds a whole lot more to my American ear than "thirty pieces of silver". Yet does my logic seem reasonable?

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feniangirl

Posts: 36
Registered: Mar 2002

iconnumber posted 04-18-2006 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for feniangirl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have nothing to add to your to premise; however,
I wanted to say that I like the way your mind works and I
do enjoy reading your posts as they are usually quite thought
provoking. wink

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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 04-18-2006 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not to be contrary, but I believe the 30 pieces of silver was 'chosen' from the very source you cite. That is, a 'servant' human life was worth 30 pieces of silver (in the guiding documentation), therefore it was 'chosen' as the fee for the life of Jesus, the servant of humanity (well after the 'fact', of course).

[This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 04-18-2006).]

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IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 04-18-2006 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the replies, feniangirl and salmoned! Salmoned, you must be right in that the sum was decided due to the Old Testament Law, rather than coincidence. Nonetheless, this doesn't solve my puzzle, since the "30 pieces of silver" would seem to be an arbitrarily decreed "price" for a human life. I was only musing on how much that might equal in any currency if Judas did the deed today. It's a rhetorical question, perhaps, but one that starts some interesting speculation.

(Thanks for the compliment, feniangirl)

[This message has been edited by IJP (edited 04-18-2006).]

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hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 04-18-2006 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know a denari was the typical daily wage for the period, but other than that, not much. Assuming the rest of your calculations are correct (except in Canada the daily wage for a labourer(Canadian spelling smile ) ranges between 100-200.)

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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 04-18-2006 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I beg to differ. 30 pieces of silver was never arbitrary, but rather the divinely sanctified price. Therefore, it would be the same today as then.

To try and evaluate purchasing power parity is to disregard (and perhaps poke fun at) the significance. It suffices to realize it's a paltry sum, then as now. Of course, were you to offer for sale those very pieces (with provenance), they would likely fetch a tidy sum today.

I have presented both extremes, as an example of the meaninglessness of this sort of speculation. It is unlikely any such coins ever traded hands. It is a story created at least a generation after the 'fact' for the purpose of instruction.

[This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 04-18-2006).]

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akgdc

Posts: 289
Registered: Sep 2001

iconnumber posted 04-19-2006 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for akgdc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suspect that the identification of Tyrian shekels as Judas's coins has more to do with certain coin dealers' eye for marketing than with any biblical, historical, or archaeological reality. The original Greek calls the 30 pieces "triakonta argyria" - which is no more specific than the common English translation, "30 pieces of silver." There would have been many varieties of silver coins circulating in Judea in 33 AD - Tyrian shekels, yes, but also Roman denarii, various Hellenistic drachms and tetradrachms, etc. No way at all to tell which Judas is supposed to have received.

At some point, however, coin dealers dubbed these common and rather homely silver coins "30 pieces," just as they dubbed the common and rather homely denarius of Tiberius "the Tribute Penny," and the really ugly, super-common little lepton of Alexander Jannaeus "the Widow's Mite." Thus instantly tripling or quadrupling the market value of these coins among the faithful (and/or credulous).

If anyone can find any scholarly evidence (rather than coin dealers' claims) to support these attributions, I'm prepared to be corrected. But I've never seen it.

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IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 04-19-2006 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Salmoned,

I detect a tone of defensiveness in your last reply (although, admittedly, attempting to define the "tone" of members' posts can be risky business, as demonstrated in the very old silver fork thread). If at all I've offended you by perceivedly exploiting the Passion for my own amusement, I do sincerely apologize. I was merely hypothesizing and posing a small puzzle that had mystified me a little in the past (In no way did I mean to trivialize the events in question). It's true, any such calculations as above depend greatly on a number of what-ifs, and I in no way intended or expected a vastly enlightening conclusion out of this discussion. I do hope you did not really believe I was "poking fun" at the significance of the Gospel narratives.

As to my suggestion that the "divinely sanctified price" of a human life is arbitrary:

I fit probably far more appropriately, I must confess, in the category of Secular Humanism rather than that of Christianity. I cannot conceive how anyone, man or god, could place any set value on human life. Life, to me, is not quantifiable: It is a tremendous phenomenon that I am thankful to briefly enjoy, and elated to share and interact with other lives. Therefore, the sum of "30 pieces of silver", or for that matter "30,000 pieces of silver", for any human life, is patently arbitrary, to me. It is beyond my comprehension and willingness to consider.

However, I do not wish to allow this thread to become a philosophical or theological debate, as I pointed out when I started this thread. I simply wish to explain myself, and to offer my apology (in the original Greek sense).

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outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 04-19-2006 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm staying out of this one. wink

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salmoned

Posts: 336
Registered: Jan 2005

iconnumber posted 04-20-2006 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salmoned     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't personally begrudge the topic per se, however it IS a sensitive issue to many others. As well, although entirely speculative in this case, questions of value have, in the past, been subject to censure in this forum. This combination of considerations has 'set the tone' for my comments here.

Addendum: Of course, no hard feelings. The question may amuse, but is idle in the extreme and could be misconstrued. (I've added my reply to a prior post to avoid bumping the topic back to the top of the forum)

[This message has been edited by salmoned (edited 04-27-2006).]

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 04-20-2006 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you look at the footnotes for Matthew 27:9-10, you will see a reference to the Hebrew Scriptures or, if you are Christian, the Old Testament. The 30 pieces of silver is derived from Zech.11:12-13, which refers to this the amount as a day's wage. Trying to resolve his discussion takes us into the realm of theology and personnnel belief about the nature of scripture. I agree with Outwest on avoiding that issue . . .

Cheers,
Tom

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IJP

Posts: 326
Registered: Oct 2004

iconnumber posted 04-21-2006 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IJP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL!!—Salmoned, the thought did occur to me that, under any other circumstance, any question of "value" would be abruptly stomped. I had actually thought of mentioning that, in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way.

Okay, okay, you got me, I'll 'fess up:

Having found them at a local auction house, I'm considering purchase of the very same thirty pieces which Judas accepted... Clearly I've trespassed the Guidelines.

All joking aside, no hard feelings.

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