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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 American Sterling Silver
 help with spoon marks? (memory lapse...)
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| Author | Topic: help with spoon marks? (memory lapse...) |
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witzhall Posts: 124 |
posted 05-09-2006 12:27 PM
  
Ar-r-r-g-g-gh! I've just spent a long time searching unsuccessfully for a thread - quite recent - that discusses pieces marked "925 STERLING" - very frustrating! Anyway, the reason is that another enticing piece of my father's silver is this Gale & Willis spoon, 10 3/4” long, with its twisted handle. I think I’m correct that Gale & Willis was the retailer, and the thread I can’t find suggests a couple of silversmiths who made pieces for retailers and used only the 925… mark — one of them maybe Wendt? Can’t remember. Anyway, I’m hoping someone else can and will comment. TIA! IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 05-09-2006 12:42 PM
witzhall, We moved this to this forum. You are no longer a New Member. You don't have to start a post in the New Members' Forum. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 05-09-2006 01:24 PM
The silver manufacturing firm of Gale and Willis is listed on page 319 of "Silver in America 1840-1940 a Century of Splendor" by Charles L. Venable as part of the long chronology of firms that William Gale, Sr. was associated with. Willis was John R. Willis the son-in-law of William Gale, Sr. This firm lasted from 1859 to 1862. William Gale invented the roller dies for pressing designs onto flatware blanks in 1826 and this provided his firm with a clear advantage in making flatware. I am not familiar with the 925 Sterling mark on silver from Gale and Willis. This was right on the edge of when American silver manufacturing went to the sterling standard and for some time many manufactures would mark their silver made to the new standard either 925, sterling or both. I also suspect that some silver make to the coin standard was later marked 925 or sterling as that was thought to make it more marketable. I might also add that Venable's book is one that should be in everyone's library. IP: Logged |
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witzhall Posts: 124 |
posted 05-09-2006 03:36 PM
Thank you, Scott, for moving the post. I'm wondering: am I not allowed to post in the New Members' Forum any more? I put it there because I imagined that more people would see it in that forum and that even new members would be able to respond if they had information. But I guess I forgot that you are very good about moving responses, etc., to the right forum. Sorry . . . ahwt, I'm inferring from what you say that the firm of Gale & Willis is indeed the maker of this spoon and that the spoon is post-1840 (how much later, do you think?) and that it might or might not actually be sterling. Am I making too many leaps? Thanks so much for the information you passed along, including your recommendation of the Venable book. I'm still very curious as to how the 925 Sterling mark relates to the thread I'm hoping someone will locate for me. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 05-09-2006 03:42 PM
Just keeping the subject of the thread in the right place. New members can respond in the New Members' Forum. They can add the URL of the subject they are responding to and eventually we will move their response to the primary thread. Also over time the threads/posts in the New Members' Forum will move to the appropriate SSF for the subject of the thread/post. IP: Logged |
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Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 05-09-2006 07:12 PM
witzhall, I do not have documentation to verify this, but I have seen 925 Sterling together with various Wm. Gale marks enough times to say that it is highly probable that it is a Gale mark. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 05-09-2006 07:54 PM
In the thread called Server in the General Category see the last entry [05-09-2006 05:51 PM ] for a William Gale and Son server with a 925 Sterling mark. This apparently also has the Gale date mark for 1862 and that is when Willis left and the son came in. See the Rainwater and Redfield book for what a date mark looks like. I am assuming that your piece does not have a date mark, but Gale and Willis were only in business together from 1859 to 1862 so I assume it was made sometime in that span. Yes Gale was a manufacturer, if fact a very successful one. I do not know if he had any retail outlets during his long time in business. I also do not know if the lack of a date mark was unusual or happened often during the Willis tenure. IP: Logged |
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Richard Kurtzman Moderator Posts: 768 |
posted 08-18-2006 01:29 PM
Here is a William Gale Jr. mark from the bottom of a soup tureen. I have never seen this combination before and I believe that it adds further credence to my supposition that 925 sterling is a Gale mark. IP: Logged |
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dragonflywink Posts: 993 |
posted 08-18-2006 05:25 PM
W.Gale & Son ladle with 925 STERLING mark. IP: Logged |
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middletom Posts: 467 |
posted 09-04-2006 04:30 PM
AHWT, You mention Gale as inventing the roller dies for decorating silver blanks, in 1826.A few years ago, the Newburyport Historical Society in Newburyport, MA published a special book about silver and silversmiths from Newburyport. It made mention of a resident of Newburyport who invented a die for rolling decoration into silverware. It used a table with one side of the decoration cut into it and geared to the table was a roller with the design for the other side cut into it. As a crank was turned, the silver blank fed between the roller and the table was imprinted with design both sides. I don't recall the name of the man who made it, but the society said that it was done in 1813. Could that have been Gale? IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 09-04-2006 05:20 PM
That would be Jacob Perkins. "Perkins Roller Press" was "used to manufacture spoons by shaping them between a steel roller and a movable table, each of these parts having respectively the impression of the two sides of the spoon." I imagine this was used to produce blanks rather than patterned silver at this early date. The publication was Simple Elegance - Generations of Newburyport Silversmiths(1998), by the Historical Society of Old Newbury. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 09-04-2006).] IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 09-04-2006 06:58 PM
Gale's patent was issued on 7 December 1826 for a term of 14 years. He engraved patterns on steel rollers and used these to impress the design both sides of the blank. He petitioned Congress to extend the life of the patent and while there is some evidence that Congress granted the petition, it does not appear that any additional years were actually added to the patent life. There was an article in Silver Magazine written by Don Soeffing some years ago. As I recall the U.S. Patent Office lost the copy of the patent that they had, but Soeffing found a copy while searching the national archives. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 09-04-2006 11:29 PM
Do we know who decorated the spoon? Did pieces come from Gale's factory all brite cut and engraved or was this done by the local jeweler to local tastes? This has alway puzzled me: how do we tell who did the fancy work, who was the designer and engraver. My understanding is that firms like Gale and Wood & Hughs made both fully decorated and blank metal. Which locally could be worked to suit the client. Is there information on this? IP: Logged |
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