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Author Topic:   old trophies
neophobic

Posts: 4
Registered: Apr 2005

iconnumber posted 04-19-2005 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neophobic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for the help that your site has given me so far, but could you please help me with a concern of mine regarding old trophies, I recovered 2 silver trophies from a skip 12 years ago that where awarded to a club member. the main trophy is a large silver cup awarded for bowling. the letter date is f 1906 and was made in Chester. are pieces like this worth saving or does the engraving de-value the cup as it would be a pity if things of this age and style were worthless. Or is there a way of saving them

Thank you
neo

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doc

Posts: 705
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 04-19-2005 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We do not normally give valuation information on this site, but I will say that trophies have become quite collectible. The engraving does not necessarily devalue a piece; sometimes it can add to the piece's interest if it involves an organization or a person of note, or sometimes because the inscription is humorous or interesting.

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neophobic

Posts: 4
Registered: Apr 2005

iconnumber posted 04-19-2005 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neophobic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry if I sounded as if I was looking for a value, I didn't want them to be scrap, I'm glad they are worth saving since they are so old and nice to look at if any one is interested in the history, the maker is w&h of Chester 1906. Is there a register of silver smiths that can be looked up?

Thank you

neo


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Patrick Vyvyan

Posts: 640
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 04-19-2005 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Patrick Vyvyan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Need a photo to be completely sure, but W & H sounds like Walker and Hall, a major producer who also had their production assayed in Birmingham, Sheffield and London. Henry Hall joined George Walker in 1848 and the company name dates from 1853. They were eventually taken over by Mappin & Webb in the 1960s.

[This message has been edited by Patrick Vyvyan (edited 04-19-2005).]

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11321
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 04-19-2005 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can relate two stories about trophies. Before I do, would like on record that I have seen some amazingly well crafted and designed trophies. My favorite being the Bryant Vase:

    The Bryant Vase
    1875–76
    designer: James Horton Whitehouse (1833–1902)
    manufacturer: Tiffany & Company
    Silver, gold
    Overall 33 1/2 x 14 x 11 5/16 in.

I believe that there are also a lot of trophies that are seemingly ho hum. And at first blush, they only have scrap value. Before you contemplate scraping or modifying a trophy please do some research. In some cases the value could be in the maker's marks or that there are only a few surviving examples of the smiths works. Or the value is in the engraving/award/presentation and/or provenance.

Now on to my stories.....

Years ago a friend who was new to silver collecting became enamored with trophies. At the time trophies were often sold for less than their scrap value. So her collection grew very quickly. The day came that she had so many, she needed to organize them. She arranged them by location based on the engraving. When she had a concentration in a particular area she would head out to research the areas local library/historical society and town records. Most often the trophies were from country clubs, yacht clubs, golf courses, etc. Upon completing her research, she would approach the clubs and offer to give a free presentation on her collection of trophies and the histories of their long forgotten members. By the end of her presentation she usually had traded the relevant trophies/history for a lifetime membership in the club. She now has memberships all over the country.


A dealer friend (now retired) would look for trophies which could tolerate a mono/engraving removal. His client, Horse Racing track didn't like the modern trophies. They also got more for their money and the variety of trophies they could present. And since my friend also used a professional hand engraver their trophies were better looking than the plaque and machine engraving.

I wish I could tell you he would first do his research but it was not his priority.

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neophobic

Posts: 4
Registered: Apr 2005

iconnumber posted 04-19-2005 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neophobic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will try to get a photo published tomorrow. I just love this site. And since seeing all the electro plated objects, does anyone know what the bumble bee hallmark on EPNS represents, this mark is on an old what looks like a cookie jar. That I've used for keeping junk in. The bee is on the inside of the EPNS lid and also on the band that holds the handle on, there are no other makings


I have just found the bumblebee information on the silver plate forum.

Thank you

neo

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 04-20-2005 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I confess I have a weakness for old trophies. And I would regard them as valuable in their own right. The best ones I have seen were a chicken sexing goblet from 1878; a Japanese golf trophy with Geishas playing gold engraved on it and a bull mounting loving cup. Enjoy the ones you have. And I would say, hope this is not too offensive, they do have value beyond scrap silver.

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neophobic

Posts: 4
Registered: Apr 2005

iconnumber posted 04-20-2005 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for neophobic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's why I took them from a skip dale it seemed a shame for them to be trashed as they were black with smoke damage. I'll try to post a photo tonight, but from what I've read its not that simple

neo

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FredZ

Posts: 1069
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 04-20-2005 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FredZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of my favorite items from the Arts & Crafts Movement period, is a sterling golfing trophy I own made by Frank S. Boyden of Chicago. Constructed of a seamed cylinder flared at both ends and with simple heavy sheet handles. It also has applied enameled flags. Trophies were made by some of the finest craftsmen of the time. Some who come to mind are Robert Jarvie, John Pontus Peterson, Kalo Shop of Chicago, & William Waldo Dodge of Asheville, NC. The making of trophies has always been a viable way of adding to a smiths commisions.

I would love to get commisions to make trophies.

Fred

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ahwt

Posts: 2124
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 04-24-2005 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A beautiful and interesting book that includes trophies is “Marks of Achievement - Four Centuries of American Presentation Silver” by David Warren, Katherine Howe and Michael Brown. The silver shown in this book is spectacular and the engraving, particularly on some of the early pieces is simply brilliant.

The text is also very interesting. The authors touch on a point raised in another thread about early English silver in the colonies. They suggest that in the northern colonies (Delaware north) there were more silversmiths simply because population centers were larger than in the south. During colonial times Boston churches were presented 245 silver vessels, of which 223 were of American origin. The colony of Virginia as a whole had only 120 examples in their churches and 92 bore the mark on London silversmiths and another 24 are believed to be of English origin. Donald Fennimore, “Religion in America: Metal Objects in Service of the Ritual” is cited as the source of these figures.

Their introduction also has an interesting listing of the factors leading to presentation pieces including; commemoration, satisfaction of altruistic impulses, motivation, compensation and influencing and enhancing the reputation of the donor or the maker.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11321
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 04-27-2005 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are some other links to threads about trophies:

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 11321
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 02-04-2007 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For more on the Bryant Vase see: The Bryant Vase

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vathek

Posts: 962
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 02-04-2007 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a fairly standard Kalo lobed bowl as trophy. It says Fifth Flight Sept 2, 1916, won by C F Drake. I believe the ECC logo stands for East Coast Conference, but I'm not sure if this if for golf or tennis. All the same, I find this an interesting bit of history and have always liked the way Kalo incorporated specific specialty designs into its silver. I also find this piece resistant to photography.


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doc

Posts: 705
Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 02-05-2007 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thought I'd post photos of a trophy I picked up recently. It's a William Waldo Dodge bowl issued to Waldo Seavey, the 1930 All Around Chamption of the Maine chapter of the American Trapshooting Association.

I only wish the few trophies I won in my sporting days were this nice!

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