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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-21-2015 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-2524]

Hello, and thank you for having me.

I am very new to having silver having received my first tea set only a month ago. I have always wanted a silver tea set and found one abandoned in a storage room. For a small donation I was able to bring it home. I found this forum while looking around for how to properly clean and use it. I hope I can learn and keep collecting and become a useful contributor here.

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June Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 1223
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 06-21-2015 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for June Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to the forums teasetz. Tell us a bit more about your teaset so we can advise about proper care. Do you know if it is sterling silver or silverplate?

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-21-2015 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, June! I'm excited to learn more.

My set I believe is Gorham and just from the 1980s, so not all that valuable, but it is complete and I just really liked it. I'm a big tea drinker and plan to use it as much as possible. I think it's from the 80s b/c I looked up the marks on the bottom. I'll try to post pictures but here's the info inscribed on each piece.

GORHAM
[rt. facing lion in octagon] [anchor in lozenge shaped outline] [G in octagon]
STERLING
then a pattern number:

Coffee pot: A8201
2 3/4 PINT

Tea pot: A8202
2 PINT

Tea caddy: A8203

Cream: A8204
1/2 PINT

Sugar: A8205

Hot Water pot: A8206
3 PINT

Hot water pot holder with heater: A8206

This one also has some different markings. The heater element has a P, PATENT 1915 and then like a winged foot of Mercury after it. The holder just has the winged foot beneath the 4 IDs (Gorham, marks, Sterling and pattern number).

The handles and knobs appear to be a dark maybe even black stained wood. The knobs really need attention as this set has not been taken care of in a long time.

I have searched for Gorham plus the A8??? numbers and haven't found any info or pictures on line.

Besides the wood it is in pretty good shape. The heating element has a pretty spiral action to open and close the hole to control the heat.

I hope to get it well-cleaned and the handles preserved and use it as often as possible!

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-21-2015 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by June Martin:
Welcome to the forums teasetz. Tell us a bit more about your teaset so we can advise about proper care. Do you know if it is sterling silver or silverplate?

June - I wrote a reply to you, but I don't see it. Perhaps I did it incorrectly. I used the "Post Reply" button next to the "Post New Topic" button. I don't know where my reply went!

I'm now trying this button as a test. Sorry I'm a bit lost yet!

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-21-2015 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, there's my reply!

I don't know how to tell the difference between silver and silver plate, but I don't see a number like you do on sterling jewelery, so I assume plate? Also, I suspect no one would have cast off such a set if it was sterling.

I've taken some pictures of the set and the markings and I'm reading all the info on how to post pictures. I hope to have it sorted soon so I can show you what it looks like.

[This message has been edited by teasetz (edited 06-21-2015).]

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-21-2015 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have uploaded pictures to the Silver Salon Forums Gallery. I'll see if I can post them here.

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-21-2015 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, it worked!

I've taken pictures to show the set, some detail, the wooden parts, the marks typical of all the pieces, the heating element and stand the marks on those pieces which differ a bit from the pots and other containers. Hope someone can help me figure out more about my set!

[This message has been edited by teasetz (edited 06-22-2015).]

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 04:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's the handle of the teapot. In need of some TLC. The knobs I'm even more worried about as they rattle loosely around as though they've shrunk away from the metal that holds them. I need serious help cleaning the handles and knobs as well as the silver!

I've done quite a lot of reading on the site today, and I'm guessing the big "P" on the heating element means plate, right?

I'm sad to report that, though I liked the slightly tarnished look of the set as I got it, my young daughter and her baby sitter decided to "surprise" me by polishing it one day while I was working. The sitter used toothpaste. I am a rank beginner, but even I know from my research not to use toothpaste. I hope it hasn't spoiled it for good.

Edited to add pic!


[This message has been edited by teasetz (edited 06-22-2015).]

[This message has been edited by teasetz (edited 06-22-2015).]

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asheland

Posts: 925
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your set was made in 1925.
Nice set indeed! smile

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Beautiful set!

Don't use toothpaste again, but don't worry, it's not ruined. The reason people advise against toothpaste is that it can be too abrasive and wear off too much of the silver, but that's probably not a huge concern this one time--more of a problem cumulatively.

I'm not sure what that P means, but it's marked STERLING, which means it's solid sterling, not plate. I would usually think the P was the Gorham date mark for 1883, but it also has the winged sandal which is the date mark for 1925, as Asheland says, and the lion, anchor, & G marks are consistent with the 20th century, and it has a patent date of what looks from the photo like 1915, so it can't be the 1883 date letter.

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The A8202, A8206, etc., are codes Gorham used to keep track of the various patterns.

If you do computer searches for Gorham sterling hallmarks, Gorham sterling pattern numbers, and Gorham date marks, you'll find lots of info.

But yes, that's a lovely solid sterling (925 parts silver to 75 parts other metal) tea set. Enjoy!

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many thanks, Polly and Ashland, for your replies!

I have had the set for a couple months and done so many searches for Gorham A8-- tea set, tea and coffee set, etc. I must be doing something wrong bc I have been unable to get anything at all. No pattern name, no dating info, and not a single picture that looks like mine. What am I doing wrong, I wonder? I've even checked those replacement services to see if they had any info.

This is the page I used to guess it was 1980s

I guessed 1980s because the G was in a shape like the one next to 1980 in that picture. Since asheland's reply I now see the winged sandal on the left side date mark list. But why would it be only on the heating element and stand? Why not also on the pots? The set might easily get broken up, so wouldn't they have dated all the pieces?

How lovely that it's sterling. Could the big P perhaps mean that just that piece is plate? I could see how the heating element might be made of a different material than the rest of the set then plated to match. Perhaps the heating element needs to be of a stronger metal or one with higher heat tolerance?

Is there a part of this forum I could search for how to care for the wood?

Many thanks, Polly, Ashland and June for your help and interest!

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Polly

Posts: 1939
Registered: Nov 2004

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Teasetz, if you take another look at the page you linked to, you'll see that the cartouches have a number inside them when they indicate a date--for example, a square with a 3 inside would be 1943. The shape of the cartouche around the G just means the piece is from the 20th century.

The P doesn't mean plated. If it were plated, it would not be stamped STERLING. That would be deceptive and illegal, and not something a reputable firm like Gorham would do. If it's stamped STERLING, it's made of sterling.

I don't know why some of the pieces are marked with the 1925 winged sandal and others aren't--possibly the un-date-marked pieces were made a bit later, between 1933-1941, when Gorham didn't use date marks? Or possibly they just left out that mark for some reason. But all the pieces clearly match the pattern, and the pattern numbers are very close together, indicating that they're part of the same pattern.

I hope someone gives you a good answer about the wood. For now, handle it gently--and enjoy!

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ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think this set could be described as Gorham’s interpretation of a late 18th century fluted tea set with a straight tapering spout. I think the sugar, creamer and waste bowl are not typical of the 18th century style that went with these teapots, but instead directly mimic the look of the teapots. Both pots may have been for tea if they have strainers at the seat of the spouts as it was not uncommon to have more than one teapot in the service.
If you use the burner I would recommend not leaving it unattended. I have a hot water pot and used the burner one time and decided after a close call not to use it anymore.
You have a beautiful set and the way you found it should encourage you to return to the place you found it and look for some more treasures.

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Kimo

Posts: 1597
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-22-2015 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What you are calling the hot water pot is actually called a kettle.

The loose handle and finials can be repaired and put back on tightly but you will need to take it to a skilled silver smith. It will not be inexpensive since you would be paying a highly skilled artisan for a number of hours of their work, but the end result will put everything back to rights.

One other possible reason for the mismatched date markings is the owner might have put together this set over a number of years as they could afford to add to it. Or a small set might have been handed down or purchased by someone who then added to it. Or the retail store might have sold everything together at one time but picked things off of their stock shelves in their back room that were ordered at different times. Everything is the same pattern and that is what really matters.

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 03:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Polly - thanks so much for your information and speculations about the set. I see what you mean now about the dates. That makes sense. So, then, the pots have no dating at all, and the stand and the heater are 1925? I'm shocked as this was going to be discarded and they felt my small donation for it was taking advantage of me! I felt it must be quite recent.

ahwt - Thanks for your reply! You are correct: both pots have strainers at the seat of the spouts. But, I notice that so does the kettle. That seems odd, does it not? And why would the two pots be such different sizes if they were both meant for tea? I'm surprised how much there is to learn about this! May I ask what happened when you used the burner? Was the close call something that would have damaged the set or did you mean it's just not a safe heating element and is a fire hazard? Also, what type of fuel goes in the spout? I would so love to really use it, but I won't risk using the burner if it's hazardous.

Kimo - thank you! I figured that pot was just for extra hot water to make the next pot of tea. I hadn't realized it was the kettle itself. I live in Asia so I'll have to scout about to see where I can find a good silversmith. This would be easier if I was back home in the US. There is some damage to the spout of one of the pots so it does need to be seen. Perhaps I can take it home with me this summer and search for someone in the Philadelphia area. It's interesting what you say about perhaps someone having built the set over time.

Since getting all your replies I have gone back to the set to see if there are any other identifying marks. I see that on the 2 pots and the sugar, cream and waste (?) there is an additional small mark to the left and below the marks mentioned/photographed above. It looks like a double knot of rope being tied. The kettle, which sits on the heater and stand that have the winged foot, does not have this mark.

What a little mystery my set is turning out to be!

Is it okay to use it as a real tea serving set? I don't want to spoil it, but my dream was to use it sort of regularly.

Many, many thanks for everyone taking time to look at my set and comment. I so appreciate it! This site is so full of interesting topics and people. I found myself thinking of early examples of spoons today while I was in a busy meeting.

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 03:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is the additional mark, on all but the kettle/heater/stand combination.

The "knot" in relation to the other marks. This placement is consistent on all the pieces with both marks.

Kettle with strainer as well

The pattern

Damage to one spout - is it fixable?

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 03:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Both pots have strainers

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 03:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[Found on the internet.] Could the "knot" mean 1910?

The thing is, when you can read the maker/pattern/etc. on mine, the "knot" stands on end, while in the link above the "knot" is shown on it's side.

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 03:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With my new information I found something similar here and it shows that the pots and things came before the kettle just like Kimo speculated!


A Gorham Sterling Silver Partial Coffee and Tea Service, 1910 date symbol, comprising a coffee pot, teapot, sugar and a 1915 kettle-on-stand, straight sided partially fluted oblong forms, bright-cut engraved bands, engraved monogram, kettle-on-stand height 13 in., coffee pot height 8 1/4 in., combined weight 95.20 troy ozs., (4 pcs.)

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asheland

Posts: 925
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iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The mixing of dates on sets like this is normal. Those dates all sound realistic to me.

That's quite a nice set! smile

A skilled silversmith can fix those issues, they are very minor.

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ahwt

Posts: 2173
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I call our kettle a hot water pot and it works well for that function. The one time we did use it as a kettle I think we used denatured alcohol.
The heater device in ours is very simply – a wick comes out of the base and there is a hinged snuffer that flips over to suffocate the flame. After a very short time the snuffer was so hot that it started to bend so I just blew out the flame. Your heater looks more sophisticated and maybe you can control how much heat is generated. Our heater seems to have one speed, very hot.
I have a pair of Gorham suspender buckles with the same monogram on each one, but with different date codes. I sure the retailer had many buckles in stock and just pulled two out of the bin when the customer came in. That may be the case with your tea set or it may be that they were acquired in different years as the customer added to their collection.
I think multiple tea pots were popular so that different types of tea could be served.
Good hunting for future finds.

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-23-2015 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
asheland and ahwt - thanks so much for your replies!

asheland - I'm glad to hear it's repairable. I think I'll take the pots, kettle and sugar bowl lid home with me this summer and have them fixed. I need to take just what I can do carry-on as I don't want to put any of the pieces in checked luggage.

ahwt - thanks for explaining what happened with your heater. Mine does have that nifty action to open and close it to control the heat. The arm with the wooden bit at the end causes the plates to spiral more opened or more closed. I'm hoping that proves to be effective heat management.

You must all be laughing at my post last night where I "found on the internet" the knot mark. I looked back and saw that that mark was on the original page I had found for date marking. I was just so convinced in was from the 1980s that I never looked at those pictures on the left! I guess that's the joy of being a beginner: you can "discover" the same very obvious thing more than once and it still feels like an accomplishment!

As for using the set, do I need to do anything to the inside of the pots before using them for hot water and tea? Do I just clean them with regular dish soap and that's it? I brew loose tea every day in ceramic. When I get a new pot I hand wash it with regular dish soap and from then on I just rinse it each day. I don't like any tastes to get into my tea other than tea! Can I do the same with the silver?

I'm so excited to use this set. Thank you all so much for helping me figure it out. Since I joined this group a few days ago, all my down time has been spent looking at posts here and researching online about silver!

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Kimo

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iconnumber posted 06-24-2015 02:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By all means you should use your set and use it often! This is the purpose for which it was made. And you are correct that you really do need to clean them well before using since you do not know what any previous owners had in them. Filling the pots and kettle with hot water with a bit of everyday dishwashing liquid and leaving it to soak overnight works well. Do you have a nice soft bottle brush? You will need one to get down inside the spouts from the outside since there are grills blocking access from the inside.

As for the different sized pots, in a full set the largest is called the coffee pot, the next largest is called the tea pot, and the third largest is called the chocolate pot since these were the hot beverages that were meant to be poured from them. Your set has two pots so the larger would be the coffee and the smaller would be the tea.

Also, what you are calling a tea caddy is actually called the waste bowl or sometimes the slop bowl. It is used and a delicate way to hide the used tea leaves or coffee grounds and whatever is being discarded. Your tea caddy would normally be a separate wooden box, often ornate, with a tight fitting lid and usually a lock and key to keep the servants from pilfering your valuable tea.

Was there also a tray somewhere in that storage room? It might be worth the time to go back and look as tea sets typically had a nice large matching tray on which the tea set was placed.

When you take the damaged pieces to a silver smith in Philadelphia be sure to get in touch with the smith well in advance and discuss what you would like done so they can be scheduled into their work and get at least an initial estimate of the cost since as I mentioned you can get sticker shock if you do not realize that a silver smith is is a highly trained and talented artist.

And, one last suggesion, be careful with keeping an eye on your pots as you travel so nothing goes missing since solid silver has a value beyond the historical and artistic one. Sterling silver is 92.5 percent pure silver and your pots will weigh quite a few ounces.

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-24-2015 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many thanks, Kimo! I am excited to use the set. I'll get it up and running and post a picture of its inaugural service. I don't have a soft bottle brush so I'll go find one!

I had imagined the vessel with the lid being the tea caddy and the sugar bowl as the open bowl. Thanks for explaining it too me. I wouldn't have used it for tea b/c I keep my teas in a very specific way in their own double-sealed caddies.

I'm intrigued about the waste bowl. Since the infuser isn't removable (it's set up as the strainer at the bottom of the spout) you couldn't get the old leaves out and into the waste bowl without rinsing them out with a fair amount of water. So I wonder what they did - scoop them out? Maybe I'll just think of something nice to put in the waste bowl.

Yes, I don't want any of the pieces to go missing so I'll only take what I can easily carry on with me.

I found this set while cleaning out the storage room so I know there was no tray. That's why I was hoping to find out the name of the pattern so I could search for a tray. So far, no search terms I use with the A8--- numbers brings up any pattern name. I wonder if I could ask Gorham?

Thanks for the tips about repairing. I will search for silversmiths now and send pictures. There are still several weeks before we fly.

Many thanks, Kimo!

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doc

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Registered: Jul 2003

iconnumber posted 06-25-2015 07:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome to the Forum, teasetz! You certainly have a lovely find. With respect to the waste bowl, its primary use was a place to dump the last bit of cold tea or coffee (or hot chocolate) and any associated grounds in an individual cup before pouring in a new hot cup.

I hope you will use the set often-the best part of being a silver collector is being able to use your treasures!

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-25-2015 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your reply, doc! What a lovely way to express that: the best part is using your silver. I have had a busy week, but this weekend's project will be to get it up and running.

And thank you for explaining the waste bowl. Now it makes sense!

I so wish I could find the pattern name so that I could search for a tray (Not that I could probably afford it. It was sheer luck that I have this set, but, a girl can dream!)

As I poke around the forums here I'm building a modest aspirational collection list: a tray for this set, a set of teaspoons and a set of butter knives/spreaders for serving tea cakes with the tea. That should get me started, anyway!

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ellabee

Posts: 306
Registered: Dec 2007

iconnumber posted 06-25-2015 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ellabee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much for reproducing the guide to Gorham year marks, teasetz (and for the good look at that nice set; best wishes in your hunt for a tray!).

Thanks to the chart, I've realized that a Gorham brass teakettle on a stand I unearthed in a recent cleanout is from 1884, so must have been a wedding gift to my great-grandmother. From online listings of similar kettles, I gather this one probably originally had a matching brass tray -- which may still be here somewhere, as I can vaguely remember one that my parents used as an underlay for ashtrays during cocktail parties (you can't trust smokers in a haze of bourbon and conversation to be fastidious).

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teasetz

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Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-25-2015 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How exciting, ellabee! Would you be able to post of picture of the kettle? I'd love to see it.

I'm happy the chart helped you, but I can take no credit. I copy-pasted a link and when I checked back it was all pretty like that. I assumed one of the moderators had fixed it up for me, but I didn't see any indication that it was edited. Either they did and we can't tell or this site is just very nicely set up for the technically challenged like myself!

Hope you can post a snap of your lovely kettle!

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asheland

Posts: 925
Registered: Nov 2003

iconnumber posted 06-26-2015 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like to see that brass Gorham piece, too!

teasetz, I'm a huge fan or Gorham, they made some wonderful pieces indeed!

We have started a separate thread for the following:
I'm a huge fan of Gorham

Here's one of the Gorham pieces in my collection:

It's a small piece but the work is top notch (all done by hand)

I've found my favorite period by Gorham is the Aesthetic period (1880's) smile

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seaduck

Posts: 341
Registered: Dec 2006

iconnumber posted 06-26-2015 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seaduck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This set is such a wonderful find! And how great that it found an appreciative owner!

Here's a suggestion for a use for that waste bowl: sugar alternatives. I've used mine for artificial sugar, stevia, brown sugars. It's a perfect functional match. And you'd probably end up trying to find a bowl or container for them anyway.

Although I haven't done this, I can imagine that you could also use it for individual tea bags, using the pot or kettle for plain water, to give guests choices of teas.

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 06-27-2015 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
seaduck - thanks for the suggestions! I don't use sweeteners other than sugar, but there are lots of fun sugars I could offer. I hadn't thought of that. We have a rose one here that's nice in some teas.

I do hope I'm a good owner for the set. I want to make it part of our household and use it so my daughter has memories of it and I can pass it on to her some day. It was definitely in need of love when I found it!

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June Martin
Forum Master

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iconnumber posted 06-28-2015 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for June Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Beautiful teaset, teasetz. So glad you found your way here to the forums and initiated such a great thread.

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teasetz

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iconnumber posted 06-29-2015 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks, June! You were my first reply and I so appreciate it. I had that new kid feeling of, what if I throw a post and nobody comes!

I've always loved silver but never felt confident enough to actually try acquiring any. This set has been my soft landing in the collecting world and with this site I'm getting excited to try a little collecting now. Thanks for the warm welcome!

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teasetz

Posts: 56
Registered: Jun 2015

iconnumber posted 07-07-2015 04:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So interesting. I keep poking about looking for information on my tea set's pattern name and for a matching tray. Today I found an interesting [item at auction].

It is my exact tea set with the same numbering (A82--)and the double knot 1910 mark. BUT, it hasn't got the decorative pattern on it. It has the same top and bottom edge pattern that looks like waves, but no pattern on the body of the pots like mine. Curious!

Would it have been the case that Gorham offered the basic A82-- pattern and then a client could also choose some decoration to be added at their choice?

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asheland

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iconnumber posted 07-07-2015 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's probably the case, although I'm not certain. For what it's worth, your set is nicer with that engraving! biggrin

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teasetz

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iconnumber posted 07-07-2015 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, asheland! I do prefer the engraving, too. Maybe there is no pattern name at all and just the numbers. I realized when I saw this set that I have no idea of how the silver trade worked - how things were manufactured, ordered, stocked, etc. I'm going to have to delve into the history a bit!

Also, I did not post those images because I thought that was not allowed. However they got here, I'm either sorry for any violation or thankful for the addition to my post if they are allowed!

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asheland

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iconnumber posted 07-07-2015 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can say this, that with Gorham, a lot of their holloware was simply model numbers, the names were mostly for flatware.

Some of their information is on a set of CD-ROMS that came out a few years ago. I don't have them, but a friend of mine does. He has tried to look up my large fish tray with no luck! frown Sometimes, these items just remain a mystery.

Martele, however, is terrific! They kept very detailed records on that line!
I coughed up the money and bought a copy of Dr Pristo's book and the information is unreal! They even have the actual date the items were completed!

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Kimo

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iconnumber posted 07-07-2015 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking generally as I do not know the specifics of your set as to whether Gorham ever offered it directly with the engraving, it is not uncommon to find old silver with added engravings. Sometimes it was added when it was purchased, but I think more often it was added at some later point in time by someone who wanted to update the look of their old fashioned silver rather than buying a whole new set. On some of the very early silver this is cause for great heartache when one sees something made hundreds of years ago that has lost its original look at some later point in time. On more recent silver such as yours there is not the same sense of loss among many people, especially if the added engraving is nicely done. Keep in mind that engravers were "on staff" at many larger retail stores and could add engraving for a modest charge, while today there are very few talented engravers left and they charge substantial amounts for their work since they are artists and can charge accordingly.

[This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 07-07-2015).]

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teasetz

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iconnumber posted 07-07-2015 10:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So interesting, Kimo. Many thanks!

I do prefer mine with the engraving and that was the thing that attracted me to it initially. The one without looks so plain to me now, though I'm sure it wouldn't have if I hadn't seen mine first.

I'm thinking perhaps the engraving was later since the pots and bowls are 1910 and the engraving of the kettle matches in 1925, so perhaps it was done all at once after the kettle was added to the set. Who knows - but it's fun to speculate!

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ahwt

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iconnumber posted 07-08-2015 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, if only teapots could talk! Your set would have some very interesting stories to tell.

I also like the tea pot with the very classical engraving. I think it is more in keeping with the look of an 18th century teapot.

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teasetz

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iconnumber posted 07-08-2015 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Finally, my teapot has its maiden voyage!

Some observations:

- wow, do silver teapots get hot!
- the strainer is not enough; an external stainer is necessary, but I should have known that as it's always the case whether metal or ceramic
- I think the tea does take on a slight metallic taste. I'll have to keep experimenting

Is was quite fun to finally use it! My real challenge is that the pot is at least 4 cups worth and since I cannot remove the leaves to stop the infusion I must use the tea all at once. Hence, I think it will mostly come out when I have company. I'll also look for a very large infuser to put inside. The challenge there, though, is the limitation of the opening of the pot.

Anyway, I'm just so thrilled to have finally used it!!

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asheland

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iconnumber posted 07-09-2015 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's great! smile
I have used (some) of my silver in the past, it's quite pleasant!

I ate rice pudding (once) with my 1640's seal top spoon! smile

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Polly

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iconnumber posted 07-09-2015 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Polly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That looks beautiful in use!

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Kimo

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iconnumber posted 07-10-2015 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, silver does get very hot. It is perhaps the most efficient thermal conductor of all of the metals. That is why silversmiths early on decided to insulate parts of tea pots, coffee pots, chocolate pots, etc. by using wood, or bone, or ivory or ebonite, etc. handles and knobs, or at least pieces of such non-thermal conducting materials inserted into handles or knobs.

Also, you are correct that the integral strainer inside spout where it joins the body of the pot does not strain out enough of most tea leaves unless you are using something like pearl tea which are whole tea leaves rolled up into little pea sized balls that unfold when you steep them in hot water. I think the limited effectiveness of such built in strainers is by design to keep the tea pouring - otherwise the tea leaves would very quickly clog up a finer mesh there and you would struggle to get a whole cup of tea poured at one go. The good news is of course that there are separate tea strainers, and also tea infusers. Infusers are small perforated containers into which you put your tea and then lower it into the hot water inside the pot. Essentially they are like a metal tea bag. There are many different designs of such infusers and strainers and silver smiths have been able to create very beautiful ones. My favorite infuser is a Gorham made one sometimes called the man in the moon. You can start a collection of all different kinds of silver strainers and infusers.


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teasetz

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iconnumber posted 07-11-2015 04:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kimo, I am a tea snob of the first stripe, so you are speaking my language!

I have already sourced some infusers - I just have to strike a balance between infuser size and opening of the teapot. The bigger the infuser the vastly better the steeping. Small infusers simply don't allow enough leaf and water contact.

I actually do have a ceramic pot with a built in mesh strainer over the inside opening to the spout and it works fine, actually. The tea pours out with no problem. The real issue is cleaning it! Getting inside to really get the mesh clean = not fun.

I suspect that I'll eventually brew tea in one of my ceramic pots and decant it into the silver pot after heating that pot with hot water. I'll use it for service as opposed to brewing. I'm just particular about the brewing!!

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asheland

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iconnumber posted 07-13-2015 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like that Man on the Moon by Gorham! smile

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teasetz

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iconnumber posted 07-26-2015 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hold the presses!

After a very rough journey back to the US (without my silver, I'm afraid. I'll try to bring the damaged piece at Christmas) I just got an email from my mother-in-law asking if I would like her mother's silver service for 12!!!

The email just came through and so far no pictures. She explained "Mother collected her sterling flatware a piece or a place-setting at a time, over many years after she and Dad married. She finished up with a service for 12, with several serving pieces as well, all housed in a wooden case."

Her mother and father were antiques dealers for decades in TX and GA. I'm so excited to see what might be in there! I'll update when I find out more. Maybe I don't need to go shopping this summer to continue my collecting!

I'm just getting on EST with my almost-6-year-old so we are at 6s and 7s right now, but I hope to be active again soon and to have something new to share!

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asheland

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iconnumber posted 07-27-2015 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for asheland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's great!
Post pictures when you get it! smile

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teasetz

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iconnumber posted 08-11-2015 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasetz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I have the news that the pattern is Oneida damask rose. I've googled and I have to say it is not my style at all. BUT, I will treasure it as a family heirloom and give it a loving home! Some of the serving pieces are in another pattern so I'm hoping those are more my style. And, of course, I wanted it to be Gorham, but never mind. I'm still excited to see it and check out all the little pieces. There are 107 according to my mother-in-law. That's a lot of silver!

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