posted 03-30-2006 10:55 AM            

We don't have kids so we don't have much exposure to children and the very young ....

We were adults when we came to discover all that fascinates about silver.

At the last show, I made a mental note to notice how many young people were at the show (helper, attendee, in tow). Basically, if they weren't in a stroller there wasn't a young person in attendance.

If we want to save silver from being scrapped by future generations we need to figure out how to share (infect ) our passion with the young.

How to introduce silver to the young? How to elevate the young's respect and appreciation of the old things that we treasure? And if we are lucky, convert a few into collectors?

Any thoughts?

posted 03-30-2006 11:24 AM            

Around here good silver is hard to come by(and by good I mean anything above average) and therefore hard to collect. The internet has helped change that, because it is not only easier to learn on it(or more importantly, how to learn, books etc.) but also to learn where to find it(shops, shows etc.) I think there is a very logical explanation for why people generally don't start collecting till they are a little older.

There is the expression "young poor man-rich old man, and rich young man-poor old man" The problem is that a young person who is relatively intelligent and financially capable generally makes long term investments when they are younger(ie house, education etc) and therefore do not have the disposable income untill they are a little older.

Many young people today just are not interested, b/c(at least in my opinion) they have not learned to take life seriously yet. They waste their money on everything and anything, and when they do decide to get serious, have none(or not alot).

Point being is that this is a financial problem more than anything else, and therefore it is only natural that people don't collect till later in life.
This is why it is important that all aspects of collecting silver be promoted, not just the top end. In all honesty, from what I can tell, young people are interested in silver, they just don't know it yet. With the help of people and sites like these, it opens up a world otherwise out of reach to most collectors. Like we say, where else on the internet can you reach some(half?) of the most knowledgeable people on any type of antique.

The speed of response, the amount of new long-term members joining, is all proof of how silver is "growing." It's because of people like the moderators/members of this forum that people become interested, and the amount of knowledge shared is amazing.

One thing that would be nice(to encourage hesitant posters) is a collection of "favorite" posts. (ie, the miles greenwood pitcher, and Samuel Minott posts would be good examples)

posted 03-30-2006 02:45 PM            

To my mind, the main problem is a widespread lack of historical knowledge, or interest. Most people are so turned off by history in school that they never get into it in a personal way, which I think is necessary to collect historical objects. What is needed is to find a way to catch people's interest, which in my experience is most easily done by connecting the objects to the lives they participated with, and those lives in turn to aspects of modern life that people can identify with.

posted 03-30-2006 05:25 PM            

And as much as I know, I still know very little because most learning comes from time, experience and handling pieces. Now I can comfortably say that I know more than the average dealer, and yet much less than an experienced silver dealer/collector.

posted 03-30-2006 07:59 PM            

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To my mind, the main problem is a widespread lack of historical knowledge, or interest. Most people are so turned off by history in school that they never get into it in a personal way, which I think is necessary to collect historical objects.

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quote:

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It seems that people's interest in antiques, in genealogy, and in history is something that develops later in life for most people . . .

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posted 03-30-2006 11:22 PM            

I think range is one of the most important things the average dealer can have. Something in the price range for everyone. What I have noticed at the few shows I have been to, is that people line up to go through piles of junk hoping to find something, but the higher end booths with mainly premium items get very little attendance. They are simply out of most peoples price range. Half the battle of any seller is to get people in your shop/booth. But if they look in and see only expensive style items, they may not bother going in.

posted 03-31-2006 12:13 AM            

Long before June and I became interested in collecting silver we would go to antique shows not really to buy things. Every once and a while, we would come home with something, but not often. Most frequently, we would go with our friends who were shopping for items for their homes/apartments.

For us going was about two things. The first was an outing with friends. The second was that it was like going to a museum but one where you were allowed touch things. It was cool to be able to touch the past. My interest in the past began in the 11th grade.

Just like most, in school I hated history and just about everything else about school. That all changed on the first day of 11th grade world history. The instructor was a few minutes late so we students were all out of our seats and horsing around.

The instructor (a retired Air Force Colonel) shows up with his briefcase where upon most of us chickens rushed to our seats.

Without a word or a look, he strolls in, goes to his desk at the front of the classroom, opens his briefcase, takes out the morning paper and starts reading and sipping his coffee, never looking up.

After a few moment of silence from the instructor most of us go right back to horsing around. A minute or two later the instructor grunts, grumbles and shakes his head at something he has just read. One of the nearby students reacts as if the instructor had said something to him. Soon the student and instructor are talking about what the instructor has been reading in the newspaper. One by one each of us joins the discussion. Before we new it, the instructor had us relating current events to history. Soon we had our history books open.

Every day was like that. We would start by discussing current events and the instructor would help us make the connection to world history. It made our overnight reading assignments fun and interesting. I have been hooked on history and the past ever since.

I feel we could be as creative as my history teacher was. I am looking for a few good ideas.

posted 03-31-2006 01:17 AM            

When we walked in on the first day, he was already there, leaning back in his chair, his sandalled feet up on his desk. After an interminable time, he sat up, and looked slowly up and down the rows, fixing his gaze silently on each one of us before moving on to the next one. When he finished this exercize, he leaned back in his chair, feet back up on his desk, and, looking up at the ceiling, announced: "Ladies and gentlemen, this course is like rape -- it is inevitable -- so you might as well sit back and enjoy it!" That is about all I remember about the course, except that the only thing he seemed interested in was which mistress which king slept with on which night.

posted 03-31-2006 05:54 AM            

Also young silversmiths tend to 'cater' a younger audience, that's why I find the 20/21 cent. forum so interesting and important. Could we get young (or not so young contemporary) silversmiths so far as to show some of their creations?

posted 03-31-2006 07:50 AM            

This is not talking about collecting,but from my own past my childhood collecting ended and it was thirty years before I started the adult one.

One last thought and that was the contemporary collection of Prof. Rabinovich, which I thought the concept of commissioning silversmiths to make a fish slice meant that for a relatively modest amount of money he acquired a truly great collection. Anyone could do this with as small an object as a cup, on up in size and cost.

The thought is to show young potential collectors that it can be done in the moment and reasonably.

posted 03-31-2006 09:04 AM            

In the middle of this thread counterstamped 1810 half-cent (click here) about counterstamped coins, was the idea for contemporary smiths to return to counterstamping coins.

Here’s my idea....
For contemporary “Living Silversmiths” to dye stamp their marks on coins and put the coins into circulation and/or make them available for a nominal fee. This makes an immediate affordable collectable. Our “Living Silversmiths” forum could become the catalog of what is in circulation/available and provide the supportive documentation/history about the smiths.

New collectors will have the opportunity to collect something that is affordable and not mass produced (a.k.a. the Franklin mint). So over time their collection has a shot at being a good investment.

The new collectors will develop similar hunting skills just as we have to with our antique collecting. The thrill of the hunt....etc. For some, I expect the refining of those skills will expand their horizons to antiques.

I am sure inspired collectors will seek out smiths (like autograph hounds) so this will become an interesting way for new smiths to be discovered.

I also think this will become a good and inexpensive marketing tool for “Living Silversmiths”

As the new collector matures they may start complimentary collections of the smiths they have been introduced to.

My imagination can carry on but I think I will stop here and see if anyone likes the rough concept.

I can’t wait to start my collection, especially international smiths.

posted 03-31-2006 01:41 PM            

A different concern: how many silversmiths would want to mark a cupro-nickel coin for distribution?

posted 04-02-2006 11:38 PM            

I found this topic very interested. I'm 39 and have been collecting sterling since, well, birth. someone was collecting it for me, my wonderful grandmother. He love for it rubbed off on me from an early age. We admired her chest of flatware and when I was with her at an antique show, she would purchase a new place setting or a special piece. Little did I know at the time she was also buying for me.... I honestly was interested in baby sterling, rattles, teething rings, baby cups because these are the things I has with my name and birthday on them. Then I was engaged and I was presented with a full chest of sterling, service for 10 and serving pieces. Now, I had been receiving a place setting for my birthday after the age of 16, so I had a few by the time I was engages. Then when I found out my patter also had holloware, oh my God, I went crazy!!!!!!! So I share this with my kids. They have a curio in their room with their sterling in it. All the baby silver and their special items. it's a tradition which you share and entrust they will pick up on. They see your passion and love for it, they too will love it. Now I collect vases, baskets, sewing items and of course my lovely ring boxes..... They see how crazy I am about the ring boxes and my little boy, who is just 6, wants to know if he will have one for his bride one day??? It's infectious!!

And it should be. Silver is a wonderful thing to have..share.... pass on.

Now as for those who are not exposed to it, my 13 year old daughter brings her friends to the house and it's out and in showcases in the living room, holding tulips on the table, on the bathroom vanity with daffodils. They ask and we start our spill.

They are intrigued and before you know it their moms are asking...........

Talk it up, that's the best way!! Make it exciting, they all won't collect it but they'll remember it.

posted 04-04-2006 06:08 AM            

From the This unofficial compilation of the U.S. Code is current as of Jan. 4, 2012:

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Question: Is it illegal to damage or deface coins?

Answer: Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who “fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States.” This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the U.S. Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent.

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In other words, YES, it's LEGAL to do what we are talking about!

posted 04-07-2006 09:16 PM            

Add me to the list, I will even supply the Coins if that would help.

BTW Scott, I met a young silversmith, who does wonderful work, and got his bio and had him take a snip of silver and stamp his mark on it with the intent of sending it to you. You have my email, send me a address and I will forward it to you.

posted 04-07-2006 09:30 PM            

Youth... I spend some time, when I can get free, helping out at a friends coin store at a flea market close to home. I Have a number of early colonial notes and coins that I leave on display, and include a number of Early Coin Silver spoons as well. On a number of occasions I have had Scouts (both Boy and Girl) come by and spend an hour talking about silver and a number have received Merit badges and the like while engaged in looking at the early American objects...

I have found both young and old bent over the counter with their head in their hands wide eyed and engrossed in the tails of early silver. I also try to let them all hold old Colonial Script, Coins and Spoons, Hollowware etc.

The Key for me is to tell them a story and ask them questions to engage them while they hold a dollar bill from 1776, or a coin from 1787, or the early Trifid spoon from London, and other pieces, including Spanish COBs, and Pieces of Eight and gold doubloons....

If you want to create a collector of anything,.... Tell an interesting story, Engage their imagination and then show them where to look to find some of the same...:-)

Just my Opinion…

"Smaug"

posted 06-15-2008 04:29 PM            

Student Reports on Silversmithing
Social Studies Department, Montgomery County's school system, located in the Washington D.C. suburbs, is the 16th largest in the United States.

quote:

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[gone from the internet - montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/forestoakms/site%20pages/Academics/Social%20Studies/Colonisl%20Times/silversmith.html]Silversmithing

Teacher note: A number of students contributed to this page. Each contributed different information or a different perspective. You may find that each article adds to your understanding and research base.
Report # 1
By Latasha J (2002)

The craft I researched was Silversmithing. The way silver smithing was done in colonial times differs from the way it is now done today. To be more clear, today we have high powered machines, and electricity. These both would have helped so much in colonial times but their work is predominantly based on hard work by hand. Not that silversmith's of today don't work but from the research I have done I would say well, "colonial work is much harder." (Though there are still craftsman who work on the silver the old fashion way.

Silversmiths made many things, most of these consisted of mostly silver. There were a number of techniques needed to complete "the simplest task." One of the popular techniques used would have to be casting. The process of casting involves pouring molten silver into a mold. Once the metal has solidified then the outer mold is removed and the item is finished off by hand. To be more specific here are the steps:

• 1.) The object to be cast is molded by hand in wax.
  
• 2.) The model is then placed in a container and covered with plaster of Paris (leaving a hole at the top for the next stage.)
  
• 3.) After the plaster of Paris mold has dried, the whole container is heated, melting the wax, which is then poured out.
  
• 4.) Then the molten silver is poured in and after it has solidified, the outer mold is broken open.
  
• 5.) The cast item is finished off by hand and is then often applied by soldering to raised silver parts.

That is an in-depth example of the silver smithing technique "Casting." Although there are a few other techniques such as: "raising" a cup, "seaming" a cup, and planishing an object (which was basically just hammering and smoothing). This technique was used at the end of every single silver smithing project. Some people don't know but most of the engraved symbol that colonial Silversmiths used are still used on most jewelry today.

In order for a silversmith to make any item he would almost always use most of the same tools for each project. Tools for silversmiths were extremely hard to come by because the price was high. Some of the tools that Silversmiths used were these: mold, bellows, anvils, stakes dies, lathes, vises, clamps, calipers, shears and pliers. I'm sure there are many more but these are the most important. To get more specific... once again, a mold was just like a ball of clay used for the purpose of "molding" into the desired shape. Bellows were used to give air into the fire in order to make the fire bigger and stronger. Bellows are still used today. Anvils were used for the purpose of being the base for the object being pounded. They needed the anvil in order to pound on a hard surface, tables couldn't handle the pressure. Lathes were used to make rounded objects and long rounded objects, such as tubes. All other tools are used today and are pretty self- explanatory. But silversmiths still needed wooden work benches, a hearth for annealing the silver, a vat containing dilute sulfuric acid for ensuring the metal is chemically clean before soldering. A range of hammers with various head sizes were also needed. A selection of iron anvil heads in various sizes and shapes were used to hammer a wide variety of forms. Sinks with water and a drainer were also a must have, so were a selecting of burnishing, polishing, and cleaning tools.

In colonial times if you were to walk into any large town there would be a silversmith shop somewhere near-by. In little rural counties silver smithing shops were few and far between. In colonial times if your silver smithing shop wasn't very big it would be called a jewelry shop, that's basically what are jewelry shops are today, mini silver smithing stores.

In order to become a silversmith you would need to have gone through a long and hard apprentices that lasted about 7 years. Silversmiths were mostly men, but this was one craft women could do also. The purpose of this training was to turn you into a "Master Craftsman" but few if any apprentice every would be good enough to gain this title. Most likely if your father was a silversmith you were a silversmith but this was the same for any other crafts too. In order to gain all skills needed the time period of 7 years was very necessary. Your "master silversmith" would make you clean and watch him closely everyday, never exactly "teaching you" apprenticeships in colonial times were basically "Watch and Learn." or "Learn from experience."

In colonial times silver smithing was very important because there no banks and people did indeed have money. So instead of hiding it they would take it to the silversmith in the town and he would melt it into spoons, plates, and candlesticks which were engraved so that people could identify them if they were stolen. Basically this craft was a luxury it wasn't needed for survival such as other crafts were. It was only necessary to those who had money and didn't want to get it stolen.

Today this craft is very satisfying to those of us to like to deal with silver and gold. This craft would most likely be dealt with in jewelry factories or mini jewelry stores, or maybe in the Amish country where many colonel crafts are still practiced.

Report # 2
By Trent B. (2002)

A Silversmith is a person who makes things out of silver like bowls porringer, cutlery and mugs. The way they made things was by melting coins into objects that can be used at home in your kitchen or dining room. To make a seamed cup you would use a sheet of silver cut a small round oblong piece for the bottom of the cup and a slightly oblong piece to form the side. Then you would roll the piece into a cylinder by pounding on anvil. Then you would use a blowpipe to solder the edges together. Tools you would use to make items like this are anvils, hammers, and cooler jungh. You would find a silver smith shop in a town or city in Williamsburg. Most shop might be homes too.

To be a silver smith you have to know certain skills. You had to have creativity like manual dexterity, social skill, math, time management, physical skill, visual interpretation, persistence, emotional skills, and language. You would also have to know the six basic ways of working with silver, which are casting, forging, raising, hollowing, seaming, and creasing. Different methods were used depending on what the person was making. These skills are learned by a very skilled silversmith. Mostly men did this craft but women did some parts. Young silver smiths were trained by older and more experienced silver smiths.

This craft was depended on because people wanted to show off how rich they were and because rich people needed items like fancy serving dishes and as a way to save money before banks were popular. Any one who had silver to use to make something for a serving piece and the training and tools of the right sort had business. This craft was necessary because it helped people with their luxury and their way at home.

Another thing, doing this might be satisfying because this craft is a lot of fun and it is entertaining to watch. In this year silversmithing might be useful because a lot of rap artists wear jewelry because it is very popular for anyone to have jewelry or silver knives, forks, spoons, platters, pitchers, teapots and other things.

Report # 3
By Kim M. & Jami L.(1997)

Our craft is silversmithing. Silversmiths make things out of silver like jewelery, cups, spoons, and other things. You have to know how to melt old silver objects down and shape them into new items. To make a seamed cup, silversmiths would use a sheet of silver, cutting from it a small round piece for the bottom of the cup and a slightly curved oblong piece to form the side. Then they would roll the side piece into a cylinder by pounding it on an anvil. Next they would solder the edges together by using a blowpipe. Lastly they would solder the bottom piece onto one end of the cylinder to form a cup, also with a blowpipe.

Silversmiths and goldsmiths are two names for the same job. They were mostly located in Williamsburg and other large cities. They had two different places to work, one workroom for small things like spoons and one for larger things like church bells. There was not much silver or gold available to work with, so they had to depend on imports and melting down old silver. The six basic ways of working with silver are casting, forging, raising, hollowing, seaming and creasing. Different methods were used depending on what object the silversmith was making. Silversmiths had a very large number and variety of tools. They owned endless numbers of differently shaped hammers and anvils in order to pound the silver out into the desired shape. Silversmiths also owned a lot of molds, pails and tongs. In order not to damage the quality of the silver that they were working with, every tool had to be kept spotless. Also since silver was very expensive, every little scrap was saved and eventually melted down to make something else in the future.

In order to become a master craftsman at silversmithing, boys had to serve long and thorough apprenticeship of about seven years. At the age of 21, they became a journeyman until they earned enough capital to go into business for themselves.

This craft was needed because people liked to have fancy, expensive looking silverware and other luxury gold and silver items that showed off their wealth. Silversmiths liked working with metal because they loved seeing metal take shape and the finished product gave the maker a wonderful sense of accomplishment.

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posted 09-02-2008 03:39 AM            

I began last year with a service for 8 plus a few serving pieces. It was a way to mark a new life and also as an investment. since then curiosity grew and began collecting a menage of sterling patterns- monogrammed particularly with dates fascinate me the most. I use them daily, love the feel and weight, but switching to stainless (outside my home) is outright awkward. I personally crave history and stories in my surroundings. while eating an ordinary bowl of salad with a fork monogrammed "1888-1913" can't help pretending to be the original owners, living in a time before the first world war. And think about how rare people stay married for 25 years anymore.

Some of my friends find my wares fascinating but has not considered collecting. Tonight at dinner I handed a friend a Latvian fork- she was very excited. And we used a coin silver butter knife monogrammed "1862" (with someone's initials) which sparked more interest. I think I'll have to invite everyone over for dinner to generate more interest in silverware

posted 09-02-2008 12:25 PM            

Welcome to the Silver Salon Forums.

Very nice first post. My edits were just to make it easier to read by putting lines between the paragraphs.

I look forward to hearing more about your attempts to show friends the wonder of silver. Please let us know how it goes.

posted 09-03-2008 01:54 AM            

I know what you mean about silver seeming bourgeois. So funny that silver is bourgeois, but iPhones aren't!

Have the Steampunk hipsters discovered silver yet? Perhaps they will soon.

I remember about a decade ago, maybe, there was a little fad for nonmatching silver-plated table settings. Pottery Barn sold a line of it. It was supposed to look as if you'd picked it up at a flea market or a thrift shop, only you actually bought it new from the big, bourgeois Pottery Barn chain, paying big, bourgeois Pottery Barn prices. This was during the era when they also sold lots of brand new "distressed" furniture (maybe they still do?). Can you imagine buying brand-new, fake-old silverplate when for the same price you could buy solid silver made exquisitely by hand when Lincoln was running for president?

I know, I'm preaching to the choir.

My husband and I recently spent a weekend with friends who had also invited a couple of 30-something hipsters. (Our hosts were a 40-something hipster, if that's not an oxymoron, married to a 30-something hipster, a Younger Man; the other couple were art-school classmates of his.)

The woman in the 30-something couple is descended from a distinguished American Robber Baron era literary figure & art collector. Subsequent generations dispersed (she said squandered) most of his treasures, but she had inherited some of that branch of the family's mid-19th century coin-silver spoons and what sounded to me like pearl-handled fish knives, which she and her husband use daily, she said.

posted 09-03-2008 03:11 PM            

First, this discussion has revolved around the question of "young people" in the generic sense, and how to interest them in silver. I'm curious about the members of this forum - in your own family, have you been able to pass on your passion for collecting silver to your own children? My own kids are too young to tell for sure, but the girls (15,9,5) like to play with my collection. We have tea parties, and the oldest one is getting really good at identifying marks - while even the youngest can identify some really unusual serving pieces! My son (16) has no interest in the marks, but does appreciate unusual monograms and certain motifs (like the knight on Whiting's Heraldic.) Long run, who knows - but I live in hope that they will collect or at least appreciate silver in the future.

This brings me to my second point. I think the primary problem with the dearth of young collectors, is that too many of my parent's generation have deemed silver too much of a bother - they don't want to polish and so they pack it away. If kids aren't exposed to silver at home, used regularly, they have no reason to seek it out when they're on their own - because they haven't been able to build up a positive association with it. How many of us have fond memories of using a special silver cup or spoon or whatever at our grandparent's house when we were young - or some other experience that made us smile when we first came across some silver to buy when we were finally able to? Certainly, there will always be a certain segment drawn to collecting from an artistic point of view, but I suspect that its the emotional connection formed in youth that really leads to passionate collecting!

posted 09-03-2008 05:20 PM            

What's the age, from which material is it made, where is it made, by which person or factory, how did it came at this place.
A lot of information.

Years ago I was digging in old piece undisturbed ground (somewhere in Holland, 6 meters below sea level) and try to find material most from the 16th and 17th century. Two children from a friend in the age of 12 year old I should learn about archeology. At first they were not totally interested, but that changed when they may dig into the ground by themselves. Own founded material came above, each founded material I explained with giving all the facts I knew. Also where it was used for, etc. I saw the interest growing, because they were part of a action what gave result and information in combination. When I tell my son about the few silver/plated objects I have and show him some, his reaction is often: "what's the value", he is interested in his own way of course, but I can't change his thoughts and respect his way of thinking.

Curiosity is the beginning of discovery.

By the way, one of the children has finished his study for a couple of years he is now a professional archaeologist, I'm a little proud.

Now I have to try to get my son involved considering the interest of the beautiful silver there is in the world.

posted 09-12-2008 12:38 AM            

The family silver is with my sister b/c she has the firstborns to pass down to, and they use it daily. The children were fed silverware from the day they were born. I'm excited for them for being connected to family history on a daily basis.

I'm late twenties; my friends are my age or little older. Using silver in my home naturally triggers curiosities; intuitively they know it's different and has special energy. Few utilitarian pieces are elegant and thoughtful in this modern world. Though they may not become collectors, at least their awareness for silverware is raised.