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 "GRIFFEN" silver mark on early 19th century silver mugs
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| Author | Topic: "GRIFFEN" silver mark on early 19th century silver mugs |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 11-24-2008 11:36 AM
  
I have two matching silver mugs with the mark "Griffen" on the bottom. These mugs belonged to my Great (x5) Grandfather, Captain Judah Paddock, and are inscribed with his name and "To EBP". Family history reports that these mugs were a wedding present to his son, and were used around 1799 on his whaling ship "Oswego" before she was wrecked off the South Barbary Coast. Online records are available of Judah Paddock's experience while he was Captain of the ship "Oswego" and his capture by pirates off the Coast of South Barbary. A Google of "Captain Judah Paddock" and the ship "Oswego" will take you to the book (scanned online by Google) that Judah wrote of his adventure. (Capt. Judah Paddock b. 1767, m. 1792 Mary Clark, d. 1823. Seaman and trader in the West Indies, England and Russia. Presented with a sword by Empress of Russia, Catherine the Great, for relieving a distressed Russian man-o-war.) In researching the makers mark "Griffen" on these mugs, I have been unable to identify the silversmith. Pasted below is a response from one researcher who assisted in trying to find the maker:
quote: I have no means of posting pictures of these mugs on the internet and will be glad to email photographs to anyone interested. Thanks
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 11-24-2008 12:07 PM
Rick, Welcome to the Silver Salon Forums. In the yellow box at the start of this page there is information that will help you get a better response. Like:
If you can email a photo then you can post photos at the Silver Salon Forums. Please give it a try. IP: Logged |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 11-24-2008 12:24 PM
Thank you. I'm not to good at posting but I hope this works. See following pictures: IP: Logged |
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FredZ Posts: 1070 |
posted 11-24-2008 01:04 PM
Rick, So glad you found the forum and posted. Hopefully there are folks who can shed more light on your canns. Best, IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 11-24-2008 02:47 PM
Rick, welcome to the forum. Makers' names and names of owners often provide helpful clues to the history of a piece. It would help to know where Judah was living, and if he had a son or nephew by the same name. There were several silversmiths named Griffen, all in New York State - Troy, Utica, Hudson, Albany, and Fishkill. All but one were active in the early to mid 19th Century, and the style of the cups is too late to have been used aboard the whaler (long family traditions often become embellished over the years). It would also help to know if you can match the initials (which may be EBP) of the person, presumably a descendant or other relative, to whom they were presented to a name to which you cam tie dates of birth and/or marriage. Thanks for sharing the story of your illustrious ancestor. IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 11-24-2008 03:46 PM
Lovely pieces, thanks for sharing. I would agree on a date later than 1799 based on style. A closeup of the band might help as there have been several threads here cataloging them. Does the band appear to be a separate piece or is it integral to the cup? Does it appear to be hand made or die struck? Same question regarding the decoration on the bottom. These factors matter a great deal in dating a piece. What strikes me as odd is that the givers name is listed in full, the recepient's is initials. Never saw that before. IP: Logged |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 11-24-2008 03:47 PM
Captain Judah Paddock was the son of Stephen Paddock, one of 18 settlers of the City of Hudson, N.Y. My direct descendant is Judah's brother, Laban Paddock, Capt. Laban b. 1769, m. Elizabeth Hussey, m. Lydia Coleman, d. 1861) Judah sailed the Oswego out of Hudson Bay, so it might be that one of the silversmiths you mentioned being from Hudson may be the maker of the mugs. I know that family stories can become embellished, and it's certainly possible that the story of the mugs being use on the ship "Oswego" is not true. I do know that the Oswego was shipwrecked in January or February, 1800. Judah married in 1792. So if the mugs were a wedding gift to his son, then that timeframe may have been around 1820-something. That still does not rule out that he could have used the mugs on his ship years earlier. It is still a curiosity of mine to know the source of the silversmiths mark on the bottom of the cups. I'm looking into who was EBP - and only am assured that the person is a Paddock. I appreciate the comments and research! IP: Logged |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 11-24-2008 04:13 PM
Dale, The band appears to be a part of the mug. A close up picture is below. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 11-24-2008 04:19 PM
It is more likely that they were a gift to Emeline Barker Paddock, the first born daughter of your Laban and Elizabeth (Hussey) Paddock. She was born 15 Nov 1802 in Hudson NY, the city of Isaiah Griffen, who worked there c 1802-1825. She was still there, unmarried, at the time of the 1880 census. [This message has been edited by wev (edited 11-24-2008).] IP: Logged |
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swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 |
posted 11-24-2008 04:20 PM
Isaiah Griffen advertised in Hudson 1802 - 1823, and Peter Griffen in Albany (also on the Hudson River) w.c. 1815 - 1837. Published marks of both men are all capital letters, but it is possible that Isaiah used more than the one mark published for him. Peter has several, three in partnerships, and all in capitals. Of his 3 single marks, two include his first initial. You can see evidence of soldering along the top of the wide band, which indicates that it is an applied pattern roll, and quite a nice one at that. From that band and the style of handle, I would place the cups closer to 1820, so it is unlikely to have been a birth gift to Emeline, but one on some other occasion. [This message has been edited by swarter (edited 11-24-2008).] IP: Logged |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 11-24-2008 04:36 PM
Wev & swarter, The prospect of the initials being Emeline Barker Paddock is quite possible. I never thought of looking at it from that angle. It does make sense that a silversmith in the vicinity of Hudson might be the maker of the mugs. I'll always wonder if there are other pieces with the same makers mark on them. I'm most thankful of your comments as my mystery of the mugs origin pieces itself together. Have a Blessed Thanksgiving! IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 11-24-2008 04:51 PM
I wrote in haste and did not mean to imply a birth gift. I agree with the 1820s dating -- given Judah's death in 1823, they may have been a legacy -- to a favored niece, perhaps? IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 11-24-2008 08:26 PM
Great job giving these cups a reasonable history wev. A niece would have escaped me, but I can see the merit. The 1860 U S Federal Census for Hudson, New York shows Emeline as a school teacher living with a ninety-one year old Laban Paddock who was born in Massachusetts. They were also together in the 1850 census in Hudson. My own personal theory if I dare have one is that Emeline was a founding teacher in the Lancaster School in Hudson with which a civic minded Judah Paddock was closely associated, and the gift of the cups might have been well deserved. IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 11-25-2008 08:52 AM
So much for my theory, it appears Josiah Underhill was the founding teacher at the Lancaster School in Hudson. The school was said to have had three hundred and forty students in its first two quarters. IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 11-25-2008 11:14 AM
For a fee, copies of the wills of Judah (the same one?) and Emeline B. Paddock can be had from sampubco.com IP: Logged |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 11-25-2008 11:29 AM
Thanks for the website! I'll look into that as it may give me some more leads. If you (or anyone) sees this same mark again on other silver pieces, Cheers! Please share by posting here. Thanks. IP: Logged |
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ellabee Posts: 306 |
posted 12-02-2008 11:19 PM
Rick, thanks so much for this thread and the great pictures. As a bonus, a handsome addition to the glossary of milled bands! IP: Logged |
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wev Moderator Posts: 4121 |
posted 12-04-2008 11:13 AM
Spurred by this post, I have been poking around the records, looking into Isaiah and Peter Griffen. There are slim pickings, but the former may have been the father-in-law of the silversmith and jeweler Benjamin Ely Cook. Cook began his career in Troy, about 30 miles from Hudson NY and married, in 1827, Elizabeth Christine "of Hudson", daughter of Isaiah and Waitstill (Butler) Griffen. I have found nothing on Peter. IP: Logged |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 12-04-2008 01:26 PM
Thanks wev.. I'm still a little surprised that no one else has seen the lone mark GRIFFEN on a silver piece. Perhaps this was done at a very early stage in Isaiah or Peter's career when only the last name was being used. Later perhaps, when there were several Griffen's making silver, is when they started putting first initials into their marks. IP: Logged |
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silverhunter Posts: 704 |
posted 12-04-2008 05:07 PM
Perhaps you already saw this lot but the history is in combination with your grand 5x father. It's great to see silver items with so many background information, so I hope this is new to you, it gives a impression about the ships they sailed these days. The name griffen is for me, just started with the hobby not familiar I've looked hours for it, with no result. The information will be send which belongs to the photo in the next reaction. IP: Logged |
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silverhunter Posts: 704 |
posted 12-04-2008 05:11 PM
THOMAS JEFFERSON Document signed ("Th Jefferson"), one page, folio, [Washington], 19 February 1805, ship's paper for the ship "West Point of New York", master Judah Paddock. Countersigned by James Madison, Secretary of State, with embossed paper seal. Some creasing and slight fading on lower right corner. Framed with typed transcription of letter by T[homas] Pickering, Collector of the Port of New York on verso. Provenance: Old Print Shop, New York Text is copy in combination with photo of the ship and paper. IP: Logged |
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rgpconsults Posts: 11 |
posted 12-04-2008 05:39 PM
Silverhunter, That is a marvelous document you posted. I’d love to see a transcription of it. Thank you for sharing this information. I had no idea he captained another ship besides the Oswego. I'm anxious to research the ship West Point of New York. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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bascall Posts: 1629 |
posted 12-04-2008 11:08 PM
I don't have a beautiful document like Silver Hunter's to go along with the information, but there is also a Captain Judah Paddock associated with the American Ship Butus to be found in Google books. Apparently Captain Judah Paddock also owned the Hudson Freight Co. IP: Logged |
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silverhunter Posts: 704 |
posted 12-05-2008 05:21 AM
Glad the info helps it was found with search function: "picture of captain judah paddock".The first thing showed was this document. There are also family trees(a lot of information).Perhaps you can make contact with Thomas Pickering(collector of the post of N.Y.?). This document is not mine but was sold at a auction for $.... (price is not interesting but like Kimo said it's the research what gives a lot of fun). Succes! IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 12-05-2008 04:32 PM
Just to slip in a comment on the inscription before I go home and collapse with a cold: The full name of the donor versus initials of the recipient don't strike me as odd at all: Judah Paddock wanted to make sure (especially if it was a post-mortem gift) that the recipient was sure to remember his name as long as she used those handsome mugs. Everytime she hoisted a brewski (what did you drink out of such cups?) she remembered to thank good ol' Judah. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 12-05-2008 10:06 PM
A great job of detective work Silverhunter. Congratulations. Ulysses made a very interesting observation about donors - they do like to be recognized. Engravers recognize that trait and often when I have had items engraved they made the suggestion to add something that would emphasize my name. IP: Logged |
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