|
|
|
| How to Post Photos |
REGISTER (click here)
|
|
|
|
| How to Post Photos |
REGISTER (click here)
|
|
 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Russian spoon
|
 SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Russian spoon |
|
Russell Posts: 52 |
posted 10-29-2005 10:31 AM
  
Dear Friends, I have a late 19th to early 20th century Russian silver gilt niello spoon with a view of a city on the back of the bowl. Can anyone identify the city from the architecture depicted? It looks as if the kokoshnik or the maker's mark is upside down. Could the maker's mark (a little blurry) be that of Maria Semenova? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Russell IP: Logged |
|
tmockait Posts: 963 |
posted 10-29-2005 12:28 PM
Moscow. The large building to the right is the Grand Palace of the Kremlin. Could we see photos the whole spoon? Tom IP: Logged |
|
IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 11-01-2005 10:07 AM
Very nice spoon! Sazikov2000 has a set of spoons in a similar style, once shown Russian spoon, but unfortunately his images (at the time I write this) are unavailable. His are by Sergei Agafanov. Yours, however, might indeed bear Semenova's mark. I know that the company's previous owner (Semenova's father, I think), Vasilii Semenov, made very many such spoons. In the above referenced thread, I mention an item in the stores of the Kremlin Armoury. If you care to look, I believe it's illustrated in the Kovarskaya book on the armoury. IP: Logged |
|
sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 11-01-2005 05:27 PM
MC, Latin MS is not always Maria Vasilijevna Sokolva! She mostly worked in enamel cloisonné! The spoons here were made by the Moscow firm Sokolov M. F. (1860-1890) specialised in niello spoons. IP: Logged |
|
Russell Posts: 52 |
posted 11-01-2005 05:40 PM
Dear IJP and Sazikov, Thank you for your valuable information. I am attaching a photo of the entire spoon. Thanks again, much appreciated. Maybe I need a new brain! IP: Logged |
|
IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 11-01-2005 08:14 PM
My aspiration is to one day be as sharp as S2K when it comes to Russian silver. I suppose he is right: If I recall (as I don't at present have the Postnikova-Loseva reference), the only mark definitively attributed to Maria Vasilievna Semenova is MC wherein the left-hand stroke of the "em" is somewhat jagged. There is a Sokolova, however, probably the daughter of the aforementioned, whose mark is not especially distinguishable from the Sokolov mark. It is Semenova who worked primarily in enamels, I believe. Also, S2K, the left-facing kokoshnik was not introduced until 1896, and not fully enforced until several years later. Would this not be inconsistent with your maker identification (1860-1890)? Just a little friendly banter, Sazikov2000... [This message has been edited by IJP (edited 11-01-2005).] IP: Logged |
|
Russell Posts: 52 |
posted 11-01-2005 09:15 PM
Dear IJP and Sazikov, After re-checking Paulson...he seems to indicate that the Kokoshnik - 84 with diademed woman's head facing left was used from 1896 to 1908, Should the dates when M.F. Sokolov was active be extended into the period of Kokoshnik use? Thanks. Sincerely, Russell [This message has been edited by Russell (edited 11-01-2005).] IP: Logged |
|
IJP Posts: 326 |
posted 11-02-2005 10:07 AM
I have had a chance to consult the Postnikova-Loseva text. Sokolova is actually Maria Ivanovna, i.e. the daughter of an Ivan Sokolov, and not of M.F. Sokolov, though there may yet be some relation. My Russian is not perfect, PL seems to say of Sokolov: "silver- and niello-work master; in 1860s-1890s had a workshop..." and goes on to describe more or less the size and scope of said workshop, as PL invariably does when possible. That said, S2K's submission of M.F. Sokolov as your maker would seem to be correct. With PL's illustration in front of me, in comparing the mark to that provided above, I am in full agreement with Sazikov2000 that your spoon was made by that workshop. [This message has been edited by IJP (edited 11-02-2005).] IP: Logged |
|
sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 11-02-2005 01:47 PM
It is a big mistery why you can find silver with the Kokoshnik facing left (in use from 1896-1908), made by a silversmith working from 1860-90. After studying hundreds and hundreds of different silver items, my conclusion is: the selling firms had stocks, which they sold when asked. Just think about how long it takes to make lets say spoons like shown in the foto for 12 or 24 persons. And there were 5 major different designs, which the customer could choose! By the way, it is very frustrating to get always the fotos "snipped" - that is the reason why I stopped contributing fotos. In my eyes this site is living from fotos and not of someone who plays the elementary school teacher - it would be better to correct the mistakes silently. Taking fotos and writing comments take time. Day-flys need no fotos! Sazikov 2000 IP: Logged |
|
sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 11-02-2005 04:32 PM
IJP- if you want to learn more about Russian Silver may I suggest you buy the book "Russian Gold and Silverwork, 17th - 19th Century" by Alexander von Solodkoff. It is in English language, you have most of your questions answered, nearly all relevant hallmarks of the famous silversmiths and a lot of eyeopening text. It took me 10 years to know what you can read in two days! Sazikov 2000 IP: Logged |
|
ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 11-16-2005 11:03 AM
Your recommended book came yesterday and it is all you say. Thanks so much. "Russian Gold and Silverwork, 17th - 19th Century" by Alexander von Solodkoff is also printed in German, did the Russians get one in their language? IP: Logged |
|
sazikov2000 Posts: 254 |
posted 11-16-2005 05:19 PM
ahwt Glad you take a pleasure in this book. The Russians have their own literature, the famous "Zolotoje i Serebjanoje delo XV-XX cc " by M. M. Postnikova-Loseva, N. G. Platonova, B. L. Uljanova Sazikov 2000 IP: Logged |
All times are ET | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
  |
|
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a
|
1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums. 2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development). 3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post. |
|
copyright © 1993 - 2022
SM Publications
All Rights Reserved. Legal & Privacy Notices |
