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Author Topic:   Help with mark on coin silver soup spoons
sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-13-2005 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[26-0491]

Hello, I am a new registrant. I have 5 soup/chowder spoons that I think are coin silver--they are marked with 900 and "Fridenberg" on the back. Can anyone help identify? Is this the maker, a retail store? What is the time period. Thanks for any assistance. (I hope my pictures are helpful).


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Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If they're stamped 900 that isn't technically quite "coin" but it's close. The pattern looks like an early design popular in the US in th 1840s as one of the first "patterns." The 900 mark with the name makes me think Germany, but I can't say if it's a retailer or a maker's mark. It sounds like something that either the Continental Forum or the Coin Silver Forum might like to ponder. Maybe Mr. Martin could move it to either of those...?

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sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so very much! I still don't know the difference, then, between coin and 900, but will do more research (if you have time/inclination, please give me some pointers). Yes, If the moderator could move my message, that would be terrific. Regards, Sari Reznick

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Firdenberg" may be a German retailer. I have a similar spoon with just a name and silver content number. It was permissible for retailers in Germany to stamp silver under some circumstances. Check out this thread: German spoon

Tom

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not so sure there is a meaningful difference between 'coin' and '900'. I have seen items marked 900 by makers with clearly American type names. This looks like one of the early patterns made in the US. Can't recall which and don't have my reference book handy. Very nice spoon, and I doubt that it is German. Just a varient of US coing silver.

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wev
Moderator

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Registered: Apr 99

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wev     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm. I have never seen an American coin flatware piece marked 900; hundreds from Europe, none from the US.

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sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the replies.

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sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just had an idea. There is a sixth spoon that looks almost the same as these Fridenberg 900 spoons, but the design is slightly different, and it is stamped Sterling Tiffany & Co. Would this help identify the Friedenberg spoons, maybe as far as era? Does anyone know the date and the pattern of the Tiffany spoon. See my pics. The initials on all six spoons, I think are "PG", but the PG engraving is slightly different on the Tiffany spoon.


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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since the designs are not identical and the markings are completely different, I don't see how this helps. Just because the spoons came together does not mean they are a set. I am hoping Blackstone or Sazikov respond as they should be able to determine whether the German surmise is correct. Did you check that other thread I posted?

Tom

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sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-14-2005 11:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, of course, absolutely I looked at them and I see parallel with my silver. I just thought that perhaps the Tiffany spoon could help date the others. I know they are not a "set". I appreciate your assistance.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 06-15-2005 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this an Albert Coles pattern? It looks familiar, but don't have a reference at hand.

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hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-15-2005 05:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have seen gorham marked 900 once at least-- "900 fine" to be specific. (not that they are gorham, just that i have seen it on american silver)

[This message has been edited by hello (edited 06-15-2005).]

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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-15-2005 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If your spoons are marked 900 then I would call them 900 silver spoons rather than coin silver spoons.

The amount of silver in coin silver items varies since it was made from melting not only coins but also other silver items that may have been of higher or lower silver content. While Spanish and American coins were minted to the 900 standard, not all countries used this standard and to the extent those were tossed in the melt pots they also varied the final silver content. During the 1800s there were plenty of coins circulating around the U.S. that were other than U.S. minted ones.

The result is authentic coin silver should be only approximately 900 fineness give or take a bit. I would imagine it would be unlikely to find many coin silver items that are exactly 900 as opposed to 890 or 910 or whatever. On the other hand, items that are marked 900 should be expected to be 900 unless there was some funny business going on. So, I think the most accurate label to put on items that are marked 900 is simply 900 silver.

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sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-15-2005 12:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much for both posts. I really appreciate the thoroughness of the responses. It is very interesting to read about the coin silver and 900. Sincerely, Sari

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Ulysses Dietz
Moderator

Posts: 1265
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 06-16-2005 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ulysses Dietz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The pattern is the popular and early pattern, called "Albert" in England, but made in the USA, too, in the same period. In English terms, this was a rococo revival style of the kind that cropped up in the 1820s and 30s, but only made it to the USA when our taste for patterns was whetted, more like the 1830s and 40s. (this from Noel Turner's book on American Flatware of 1972, pages 69 and 70) I'm under the impression that there was an American smith named something like Digney in NYC, who produced this pattern, but I can't find any references, so maybe I'm hallucinating.

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

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iconnumber posted 06-16-2005 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The "Prince Albert" was made by many American smiths including Gorham, John Polhamus, George Sheibler, Whiting Manufacturing Company and Reichel.

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sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-16-2005 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so very much for your time and help with this pattern. Very much appreciated!

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 06-16-2005 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What then is the significance of "Fridenberg?"

Tom

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Kimo

Posts: 1577
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-16-2005 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kimo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The retailer perhaps?

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sarez

Posts: 8
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-16-2005 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sarez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is what I was wondering. Thanks for the ongoing reponses.

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