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tline3open  German Spoons - Please help!

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Author Topic:   German Spoons - Please help!
dragonflywink

Posts: 916
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 03-20-2003 01:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-1020]
My friend brought me 132 pieces of mixed silver to sell for her. Most has been in storage since 1955! Managed to identify all but these four pieces (and a coin piece I asked about earlier), haven't seen the Wyler book since I moved, and I'm cranky and exhausted from cleaning 50 years of tarnish off all this *%#* flatware (ready for the Tarnex - JOKING!).

I doubt that they have any great value and I could just sell them as 19th century German or Northern European - but I'm a researcher at heart and want to know what they are. Hopefully someone can help me a bit.

The first piece is 5-1/8" long, acanthus design at top, the marks are on the front, a crown, IC. or TC. in rectangle, something that looks to me like a keg with wings and beer or wine spouting from the top (I could be hallucinating), and a 13 (old loth measure). The back is plain, but does have a weird engraved symbol (not sure if it's right-side up or not).

The next one is 6-1/8" long, simple oval, engraved G.B. 1832, has an engraved V where the drop would normally be. The marks are worn, appear to be a figure with a 1 on one side and 9 on the other, and a script FL(?) in a rectangle.

The next piece is a serving spoon (9-1/8") that matches the above piece. All details are the same except for the marks. Has a long assay test scratch (isn't there a special name for that?), an A in circle, bear w/K (19th century Berlin), and SCHARTE.

The last is my favorite - quite worn and fairly beat-up, but very appealing to me. It's 4-7/8" long, engraved with a four-petalled flower, some tiny designs that I believe were part of a worn-off wriggle work pattern, an old style monogram (weren't these usually for a marriage?) that has a barely visible wriggle oval around it. No marks, rounded drop on the bowl.

Sorry if I rambled! It's late, I'm getting punchy, and the news reports are disturbing.

Thanks in advance for any information offered!

Cheryl wink

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Bert
unregistered
iconnumber posted 03-22-2003 03:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Cheryl,

I found some information on the 3rd spoon. The bear is the town mark for Berlin - you are right. The K next to the bear is the assayers mark (Aeltermannbuchstabe) for the period between 1821 and 1850. The A in the circle is the second assayers mark for the period between 1821 and 1841. The zig zag line in German is Tremolierstrich (speak slowly when trying). And last SCHARTE is the makers mark but I have no further information about this maker.

The second spoon I suppose to be German as well. The mark is not very clear, but in case the spoon has been polished very much the mark could be the rest for the Munich town mark of 1819. "Fl" possibly will be the makers mark. The last spoon I would date around 1800 or earlier. I have seen those monograms before on older spoons.

The first spoon - I a sure - is not German. The hallmarks are not typical German. I hope I could help you!

All the best,
Bert

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dragonflywink

Posts: 916
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 03-22-2003 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Bert, you're so nice! The marks on the first spoon were unfamiliar to me also (aside from the 13), and the odd symbol engraved on the back interests me too. Still believe it to be from your general area of Europe - Austro-Hungarian or Swiss perhaps. Thanks for the opinion on the last one, I felt it was probably late 1700s-early 1800s.

Tremolierstrich? I said it slowly, and think I have it. Feel sure that there's a name for it in English, in the mean time, the German name is my fun word for the day!LOL Had a boyfriend from Konstanz who for some reason found it very entertaining to hear me say German words. Almost wish we'd been together longer, so I could have actually picked up part of the language (to add to my very tiny bits and pieces of French and Spanish).

Cheryl ;o)

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Scott Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 10936
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 03-22-2003 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Re: the zig zag line
From The Guide To Evaluating Gold & Silver:
  • Scrape mark or diet - A gouged line (often a zig-zag line) where a portion of silver has been removed for the purpose of an assay to test its quality. Sometimes these lines are later polished away, but they are often seen intact, especially on articles of Continental manufacture.

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dragonflywink

Posts: 916
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 03-23-2003 02:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Scott! Diet was the word I was searching for. Can't seem to access the memory banks as easily as I could in my youth.

Cheryl ;o)

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Brent

Posts: 1502
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 03-23-2003 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spoon number 1 is Finnish. The Crown is a standard mark, and the IC is likely the maker's mark. The winged beer keg is a town mark for Kokkola, and the final mark is a date stamp. It think it looks like a V3, which would date the spoon to 1878.

Brent

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dragonflywink

Posts: 916
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 03-23-2003 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Brent! Didn't even really look at Finland as I've never seen a piece without the fineness (usually followed by an H). Should have been more diligent! The last mark is quite sharp and definitely not V3 (the picture does have a slight shadow), so perhaps it's I3 (as opposed to 13) for 1866.

In looking at the town mark in Tardy's, appears to be some sort of flaming keg or barrel, must be the old bartender in me that saw a spout of liquid refreshment.

Cheryl ;o)

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blakstone

Posts: 493
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 05-18-2005 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blakstone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another in my continual series of resurrecting the long gone and totally forgotten. I can add the following:

"IC", the maker of the Kokkola, Finland spoon, is Johan Niclas Chorin, working 1828-1871, so the 1866 date makes more sense. And it is a burning barrel, but of tar, not liquor. (Why let a good thing go up in flames?) Tar trading was one of the town's primary industries, represented on its civic arms since 1620.

The second spoon was German when it was made but would now be considered Polish. The guild mark - a griffin's head - is that of the Pomeranian city of Szczecin [German: Stettin] flanked by the fineness: 12, for 12 Löt or .750 silver. The maker - FL, in script - is Friedrich David Gottlieb Luckwaldt (1796-1865), Master 1817. This "lancet" style spoon probably dates from the 2nd quarter of the 19th Century.

Swift as ever . . .

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dragonflywink

Posts: 916
Registered: Dec 2002

iconnumber posted 05-18-2005 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dragonflywink     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Blakstone, you do come up with the most amazing information. And I'm so glad to know that those crazy Finns weren't burning off the beer, that would just be such a waste!

The last unmarked spoon is in my collection, and while worn and beat-up, it's naive quality still charms me.

Cheryl ;o)

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