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Shoe buckle?

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Author	Topic: Shoe buckle?
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 03-06-2010 12:08 PM [07-0683 01-2784 26-1060] I know nothing about buckles, but on the principle that whenever you see a piece of 18th century silver for the price of a sandwich you should buy it, I now have one. I'm hoping some of you nice experts (hi, Clive!) can tell me when and where it's from and whether I'm right that it's for shoes rather than knees. The only marks I can find are a zigzag (for digging out a bit of silver to test it?) and a couple of indentations I can't read. The marks: IP: Logged
Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 Registered: May 99	posted 03-07-2010 01:05 PM Let's dive right in. It is a shoe buckle--knee breech buckles are distinctly smaller. It certainly looks 18th century, the faceted character of the surface would have made it sparkle as if jeweled in 18th-century candlelit interiors. The hammering of the iron fork-like catch seems to rule out English or American...and isn't the zig-zag test mark sometimes associated with Spanish (i.e. Mexican or South/Central American) silver? IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 Registered: Apr 93	posted 03-07-2010 01:55 PM There are many threads that refer to a diet or scrape mark or as most posters call them a zig zag mark. The zigzag mark is an assayer's "mark" (not a true hallmark, just the residual of where the assayer removed a certain amount of metal for assay). This is common in Germany and some other nearby continental countries. Here is an explanation by Blakstone: quote: "The zigzag line, known by the unlikely name of a "diet" in English, is called a "Tremolierstich" in German. (I like the term "proofstrike", which I see occasionally in English translations of German catalogs; much better than the peculiar "diet".) It was produced when an assayer removed a bit of silver with a rowel-like device in order to test the content for purity." From *The Guide To Evaluating Gold & Silver: Scrape mark* or diet - A gouged line (often a zig-zag line) where a portion of silver has been removed for the purpose of an assay to test its quality. Sometimes these lines are later polished away, but they are often seen intact, especially on articles of Continental manufacture. Here is buradilla found on a Spanish dish. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 03-07-2010 05:38 PM Thank you, Scott & Ulysses. I'll imagine a Spanish or Mexican caballero with my buckle twinkling on his zapato. He is very proud, is quick with his sword, and wears a remarkable mustache. A buckle is so much more fun than a sandwich. IP: Logged
agleopar Posts: 850 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 03-08-2010 12:44 AM Another word for the zigzag would be wriggle - as in wriggle work by engravers, done with a flat graver rocked left to right as it is pushed forward. It is VERY fast and easy to do, the speed you rock dictates the tightness of the wriggle. Also it is safe because you do not run the risk of the graver sliping the way you could if you used a square graver to cut a straight line. Very nice buckle! IP: Logged
argentum1 Posts: 602 Registered: Apr 2004	posted 03-08-2010 01:27 PM Golly, just think -- Zorro slashing his way through the evil Alcalde and his horde of nasties to protect the innocent people of Pueblo de Los Angeles. By day the gentle Don Diego de le Vega and by night a superhero. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 03-08-2010 02:02 PM I polished the buckle in the hope that if I got some of the distracting spots of tarnish off, someone would be able to figure out the marks. It's stamped in two places, one next to the diet/proof strike/zigzag/wriggle and the other on the other side. Definitely punch marks of some kind, but I can't make head or tail of them. Here they are again, hopefully a little clearer this time. I almost imagine that part in the upper right of the first one is part of a letter, a P or B or R. Or is the long, wedge-shaped bit at the lower left the French boar's head? Or am I seeing things--should I try Rorschach tests instead? Can anyone make out anything meaningful? IP: Logged
Kimo Posts: 1627 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 03-08-2010 06:06 PM Gosh, it could be anything. I'm not seeing a boar's head, it looks more like a chicken or an eagle to me. Perhaps it is a Mexican eagle with snake in his beak marking? IP: Logged
swarter Moderator Posts: 2920 Registered: May 2003	posted 03-08-2010 09:26 PM These marks are so worn that only someone famiiar with them would have a chance of recognizing them. I think this thread should be moved to the Continental/International form where any such people would be sure to see it. IP: Logged
dragonflywink Posts: 993 Registered: Dec 2002	posted 03-08-2010 11:01 PM Knew I'd seen those marks before, a quick trip to the shelf with my oldest books confirmed my suspicions - a rare Whovillean buckle, bearing the later large-heart-Grinch town mark and the suspended-Max guarantee..... Sorry Polly, unfortunately that is exactly what my slightly askew brain saw, wish I could help with your wonderful new buckle (I'd have gladly given up a sandwich or two for it). ~Cheryl IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1970 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 03-09-2010 07:38 PM Too funny, Cheryl! IP: Logged

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