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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 Continental / International Silver
 Need help IDing I.Kreutzer Dish
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| Author | Topic: Need help IDing I.Kreutzer Dish |
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rmo1957 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-18-2008 10:48 PM
  
[26-1659] Hi, I was given this dish by a Great Aunt a few years ago. She knew I always really liked it. Although I really know nothing about it or the maker. I really don't think it is silver but would love some input about it. Thanks a million in advance for any help you can give me. IP: Logged |
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rmo1957 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-18-2008 11:48 PM
Ok after doing some exploring on the site found mention of I.Kreutzer being the trademark for Joszef Kreutzer and the 3 stars the trademark. Now I would be ever so grateful to find out what the other two marks mean, I take the 84 to be the date and really have no clue what the third marks is? I am fairly new to collecting silver and silver plate. Thanks in advance Eric AKA rmo1957 IP: Logged |
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nutmegr Posts: 58 |
posted 05-19-2008 12:14 AM
84 usually refers to the silver content in the piece - 84 of 96 parts = .875 silver. This is just shy of the sterling standard of .925, and is typical for Russia and some other Eastern European countries. The part that confuses me is that the makers mark is not in Cyrillic but in the Latin alphabet, which means it is likely not Russian. Sorry, I don't know the 3rd mark at all. There are some real Russian silver experts here who I bet will be able to help you soon. It's a beautiful dish!! --------- IP: Logged |
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rmo1957 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-19-2008 12:28 AM
Hi Lisa, Thank you very much Would you by any chance know what thay call this kind of a design. My Great Aunt had told me many years ago, but I can-not for the life of me remember. I love the pattern. Eric IP: Logged |
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Dale Posts: 2132 |
posted 05-19-2008 08:39 AM
Not all parts of the Russian Empire used Cyrilic. Latvia, Lithuania, Eastonia, Finland and occupied Poland all used Roman script. IP: Logged |
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nutmegr Posts: 58 |
posted 05-19-2008 09:48 AM
I don't know how to post a direct link to the topic, but if you use the search function to look up a thread called Estonian Walkingstick," blakstone wrote an incredibly informative post about Polish silver. Under "Warsaw Silversmiths 1850-1930" posted 05-10-2005 01:37 PM he lists Kreutzer, Joszef 1860 ---------
See UBB Code IP: Logged |
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rmo1957 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-19-2008 11:30 AM
Hi Dale and Lisa, Again Thanks for your info, I did find the walking stick information earlier and found it very useful. I would really like to know what you call this style of dish. If I remember it was Rocco or something like that. Eric IP: Logged |
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nutmegr Posts: 58 |
posted 05-19-2008 12:53 PM
Rococo was a style made popular in France in the 18th century. It was very ornate, with shells and swirling lines, often asymmetrical and with naturalistic forms incorporated into it. Your piece has more symmetry, but it certainly looks rococo to my untrained eye. Usually I find the style a bit too fussy, even though I appreciate the workmanship, but I like the fruit and foliage on yours. The date of your piece (mid 19th century)is much later, perhaps this would be considered "rococo revival?" -------- Lisa IP: Logged |
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rmo1957 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-19-2008 01:25 PM
No I don't think it is Rococo. The design is of what appears to be Fruit and Vegetables as well as smaller grape vines  Picture of handle design Side view, notice it changes to flowers Eric IP: Logged |
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Ulysses Dietz Moderator Posts: 1265 |
posted 05-21-2008 08:13 PM
Rococo it is! Although in the period it would have been called Modern French. !9th-century rococo is quite different from 18th-century rococo. On most of it, especially in American silver, and also on this piece, it tends to be symmetrical (more baroque than rococo in spirit). But the use of the convoluted C-scrolls and all of the clustered fruit and flowers, (romantic naturalism) is absolutely typical of the modern French style of the 1850s and 60s (going back as far as the 1830s) known as Rococo Revival by decorative arts geeks (of which I am one). You see this same kind decoration everywhere--from furniture to carpets and wallpaper. It's interesting, that although typical of the style of its time, you'd never think this lovely piece was American--it looks European, tho' it's hard to define why. I think it's a form used to serve fruit (or, believe it or not, sliced bread). IP: Logged |
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rmo1957 Posts: 6 |
posted 05-21-2008 08:24 PM
Hi Ulysses Dietz Thank you for filling in some blanks for me, this truely makes me feel like I still have a memory left, as I was sure that was what my Great Aunt had told me it was many years ago. I truely love the design of it and feel it is a special piece that I have finally added to my small but growing silver collection. This site is the best. Eric IP: Logged |
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