SMP Logo
SM Publications
Silver Salon Forums - The premier site for discussing Silver.
SMP | Silver Salon Forums | SSF - Guidelines | SSF - FAQ | Silver Sales

The Silver Salon Forums
Since 1993
Over 11,793 threads & 64,769 posts !!
Continental / International Silver Forum
How to Post Photos REGISTER (click here)

customtitle open  SMP Silver Salon Forums
tlineopen  Continental / International Silver
tline3open  I am unable to identify this particular hallmark on a decanter stand

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

ForumFriend SSFFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   I am unable to identify this particular hallmark on a decanter stand
parishhall
unregistered
iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 07:19 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[01-1249]

I have a sterling silver decanter stand I think. the hallmarks are what appears to be a beaver in a shield, the letter A, in a shield, a crown in a shield and the makers marks JS&S.

Thank you,
Vanesa

IP: Logged

vathek

Posts: 961
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Canadian, possibly around 1898.

IP: Logged

Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting, Vathek! Do you have a reference for it?

There was an earlier discussion of this "family" of marks in the Silverplate Forum (Hallmark Identification).

IP: Logged

vathek

Posts: 961
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tardi. The first two may be silver, but the A1 (c) is silver plate.

IP: Logged

Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tardy? All I find there are the crumbs on page 91 (1985 printing). If there is more please point us to it.

To me, that Tardy information alone doesn't prove its being Canadian. What could point in that direction is that (b) and (c) and presumably Vanessa's piece (picture on Sympatico) were found in Canada. But it may mean only that an English maker used a particular mark for exports to Canada ("they like beavers - let's give them one!" smile ).

The fact that the Unitts were unable to document their one entry for 'JS&S' also is something to consider.

Silver or silverplate? Items (b) and (c) are silverplated - what about (a) and Vanessa's piece?

(b) has a pseudo yearletter 'A'; these two other ones also have letters 'A'. Are they genuine yearletters for sterling with both items made in the same year or are they pseudo letters like the one on (b)? Which is more probable?

IP: Logged

parishhall
unregistered
iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 08:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Vathek and Arg(um)entum.

I was under the impression the the ever famous "Canadian Beaver" was used from about 1800-1880s. When Canada was under French rule marks were similar to those in France.

From 1898 on, the lions head in a C became the national mark.

I appreciate all of your help and will check this site to see any more information has been posted. By the way this piece is a 3 bowl condiment set and weighs approximately 42 ounces.

I will post a photo of the piece tomorrow, maybe that will help.

Thank you
vanesa

IP: Logged

Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"... .Canadian Beaver" was used from about 1800-1880s. "
I only have the one source to go by, the Unitts' book. Based on it, I'd say the beaver didn't come into use as a mark on silver until the middle of the 19th century and it is impossible to tell from it for how long its use continued.
I'm sure there are some collectors out there who have a good idea. If only they'd speak up. smile

IP: Logged

Brent

Posts: 1502
Registered: May 99

iconnumber posted 10-10-2003 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
George Mappin's book on English silverplate marks ascribes these marks to John Sherwood & Sons of Birmingham, England, ca. 1858 to the early 20th Century. The JS&S, the beaver and the crown seem to appear in most of the Sherwood marks; the letter varies. I'm not sure why they used a beaver in the mark; it might have had some family significance.

I'm afraid I don't think there is any connection to Canada in this case. There were a number of early Canadian silversmiths who used a beaver in their marks, but this is not one of them.

Brent

IP: Logged

Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-11-2003 02:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, Brent, for identifying the 'JS&S' mark and its use of the beaver.

The Unitts' book doesn't strike me as scholarly, so I wouldn't place any bets based on it. Still, it's a source. They show very few beavers, all of them for Ontario companies probably existing no earlier than mid-19thC.

Do you have a source showing beavers earlier than that or for other locations?
TIA!

IP: Logged

parishhall
unregistered
iconnumber posted 10-11-2003 08:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good morning,

Here is a photo of the"beaver piece"I believe it to be some sort of a condiment stand. Please correct me if I am wrong and what is the proper name for it. The edges have a cast and applied motif.

Thank you
Vanesa

IP: Logged

ozfred

Posts: 87
Registered: Sep 2002

iconnumber posted 10-12-2003 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozfred     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Canadian Beaver was also used by an Australian retail jeweler, based in Sydney since 1883, Fairfax & Roberts, in conjunction with their 'Fx&R' and standard mark.

IP: Logged

Arg(um)entum

Posts: 304
Registered: Apr 2002

iconnumber posted 10-13-2003 03:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arg(um)entum     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Fred! That's surprising.

Would you have a picture so that we can be on guard against kangaroos in beaver pelts?

IP: Logged

2209patrick

Posts: 37
Registered: Mar 2006

iconnumber posted 10-08-2011 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2209patrick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

IP: Logged

All times are ET

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a


1. Public Silver Forums (open Free membership) - anyone with a valid e-mail address may register. Once you have received your Silver Salon Forum password, and then if you abide by the Silver Salon Forum Guidelines, you may start a thread or post a reply in the New Members' Forum. New Members who show a continued willingness to participate, to completely read and abide by the Guidelines will be allowed to post to the Member Public Forums.
Click here to Register for a Free password

2. Private Silver Salon Forums (invitational or $ donation membership) - The Private Silver Salon Forums require registration and special authorization to view, search, start a thread or to post a reply. Special authorization can be obtained in one of several ways: by Invitation; Annual $ Donation; or via Special Limited Membership. For more details click here (under development).

3. Administrative/Special Private Forums (special membership required) - These forums are reserved for special subjects or administrative discussion. These forums are not open to the public and require special authorization to view or post.


| Home | Order | The Guide to Evaluating Gold & Silver Objects | The Book of Silver
| Update BOS Registration | Silver Library | For Sale | Our Wants List | Silver Dealers | Speakers Bureau |
| Silversmiths | How to set a table | Shows | SMP | Silver News |
copyright © 1993 - 2019 SM Publications
All Rights Reserved.
Legal & Privacy Notices