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tline3open  Breaking up sets

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Author Topic:   Breaking up sets
vathek

Posts: 966
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 06-11-2006 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed that there is a seller at auction who seems to have access to a steady stream of rather nice silver, yet he lists sets as individual pieces. Maybe that brings more but it certainly bothers me to see silver sets that has been together for a hundred years or more being broken up this way.

Opinions?

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June Martin
Forum Master

Posts: 1326
Registered: Apr 93

iconnumber posted 06-11-2006 08:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for June Martin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, breaking up is hard to do. Think someone wrote a song about that...

If only we could get out the word about the beauty of preserving silver in the families that have it. But on the other hand, selling off in pieces is at least better than melt down.

I would really like to see more opportunities for educating people about how elegant it is to actually use silver everyday. How much fun it is to know and use the right piece of flatware for the right purpose and in the right way.

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 06-11-2006 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FWIW, in my experience, sets are not very saleable. Selling by the piece is the way to go . It seems that those who like sets already have them. And those who want sets already have odds and ends to which they need to add.

Additionally, many of the sets that come on the market are either incomplete (missing pieces) or come with a bunch of miscellaneous pieces.

[This message has been edited by Dale (edited 06-11-2006).]

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tmockait

Posts: 963
Registered: Jul 2004

iconnumber posted 06-11-2006 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tmockait     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Dale. "Odments" as the Brits deam it are the only items we small collectors can afford. Besides if you collect items to display, sets don't do it. Still I can understand how you feel seeing a beautiful set made generations ago canabalized.

Cheers,
Tom

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jersey

Posts: 1203
Registered: Feb 2005

iconnumber posted 06-11-2006 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jersey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi vathek!

I think it is a shame to do this also, & I do agree that maybe people are looking to find missing pieces to their sets. However, I notice too when one has a "set" they might have to put a high price on, their listing fees etc. go up & also if the start price is high maybe they feel no one will jump in at that price.

As other members have suggested there are/could be many reasons......'tis a puzzlement!

Jersey

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hello

Posts: 200
Registered: Jun 2005

iconnumber posted 06-11-2006 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hello     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I personally don't understand it in the least. Partial sets I can understand (as they may be more frustrating to own than a single piece), but I guess it stems from my opinion that I would rather have one complete set than many single pieces that don't match, in the same way that I would rather have one really good piece, than ten mediocre pieces. In the future, with the rate and amount of sets being broken up, one would think that a complete set would come at a premium (as demand increases with population etc.)

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Dale

Posts: 2132
Registered: Nov 2002

iconnumber posted 06-11-2006 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dale     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually no, a complete set does not command any sort of premium. If anything it is invariably worth less than the sum of the individual pieces.

I once saw a very nice lady dealer, one who dealt in decorative accessories, with a fantastic set of Towle Georgian. This was close to 400 pieces, all with the same monogram. There were about 30 pieces per place and really great servers. It was probably the single most complete set I have ever seen in any old pattern. She priced it at a very reasonable per piece level. And could get no interest. People kept leaving her offers on individual pieces.

Fortuneately she kept the phone numbers. On Sunday morning she started calling those who had made offers, most of which were well above the per piece. By late in the day she had sold almost all of it, for a sum much bigger than the set could have been had for. The really rare servers went very high. She was both pleased and utterly exasperated by this.

What we need to keep in mind is that there are many silver buyers who do not collect silver. They cook and entertain. For them, having 12 matched ramekin forks or sorbet spoons is important. Regardless of pattern. And there are loads of people who inherit a partial set, like it and want more. They are the beneficiaries of the broken set. Then there are those who prefer to have one place setting per pattern. Which sets a sumptuous table, but does involve enormous bookeeping.

The silver business really works if you decide not to second guess the customers. They do things for their reasons, not ours.

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outwest

Posts: 390
Registered: Nov 2005

iconnumber posted 06-12-2006 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for outwest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Remember this thread? I know that I love my complete set and feel a lot of satisfaction knowing that it is back together. I get it out sometimes just to look at it.
Are these for ice cream?

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jprice33

Posts: 204
Registered: Sep 2000

iconnumber posted 06-12-2006 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jprice33     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When and if the set can be documented/traced as having historical significance, then of course there's an added value..most sets do not fall into this category, and your typical eBay seller is doing their best to maximize profits..not to mention tack on additional postage profits that will add up nicely when shipping one spoon at a time..

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vathek

Posts: 966
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 06-14-2006 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not so bothered with breaking up flatware sets as replacements are readily available, but what about a nice deco tea set, or a set of anything designed by Paulding Farnham or Christopher Dresser or Ashbee etc. Even if they have no 'historical' value the integrity of the design alone should keep them together.

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swarter
Moderator

Posts: 2920
Registered: May 2003

iconnumber posted 06-18-2006 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for swarter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This topic is also discussed in another topic in Silver Stories (Breaking up the family heirlooms).

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ahwt

Posts: 2334
Registered: Mar 2003

iconnumber posted 06-28-2006 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ahwt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dale is right in that the customers have their reasons for buying and it is best not to second guess them. Occasionally I have seen dealers, who normally break up sets, insist that a certain set cannot be broken up.

I recently saw a grouping of coin silver spoons from a rare maker for sale at a price that if sold individually and divided by the number of spoons would have gone quickly. If one is collecting maker's names one spoon is all one needs and the purchase of many just means less money to buy other things. To find a buyer that wants to buy the set takes longer, but if keeping the items together means that much to the dealer I really hope that they succeed and also hope that it means as much to the buyer.

My wife recently has brought three sets of strawberry forks. They were all sold as a set and one dealer indicated that while a lot of folks like one each from various patterns; he found it best never to sell less than six at a time. For a tea set I would think that it would be best to sell the tea pot, creamer and sugar together. A waste bowl could be sold separately without harming the value of the other three items and may bring in more if it is sold individually.

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vathek

Posts: 966
Registered: Jun 99

iconnumber posted 06-29-2006 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vathek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so it's mostly always about the money.

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