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 Paul Storr Sugar...
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| Author | Topic: Paul Storr Sugar... |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-16-2014 08:59 PM
  
Greetings all, you would think there would be multiple forums for those of us that love collectable silver but, not so. Therefore I'm posting here in hopes of a little more dialogue concerning the finds we all sometimes make. Below is a Paul Storr sugar I've come across of late, w/ equine finial (a beloved mount perhaps?), very large, to me anyway, and quite ornate. I'd like help w/ the coat of arms, and it's rarity or lack thereof. [snip ... Please properly post photos. How to Post Photos] Any comments appreciated. [This message has been edited by rynegold (edited 04-16-2014).] IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-16-2014 10:53 PM
I find no way to edit my original post... so here's a slide show of the piece: [snip .... Please properly post images or don't post. To edit your post please read the FAQ] IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-16-2014 11:03 PM
[snip .... last warning] IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-16-2014 11:16 PM
So Scott... its says in the FAQ to "encase" the url with this: [[snip. ]true story??? And of course, there's no way to "preview" our posts; so what would you have us do?... I mean with warnings and such? Good God, all I'm trying to manage is a simple post. [then do what is described Completely in How to Post Photos] IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-16-2014 11:35 PM
This is how your photos should look in a post  IP: Logged |
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Hose_dk Posts: 400 |
posted 04-17-2014 04:37 AM
rynegold on top of your post is a line. First your name and going right the date etc. Then you have 3 icons, The one in middle look like a "piece of paper and a pencil" click that icon and you can edit your post. IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-17-2014 08:33 AM
Thanks Scott... I don't know that I'm smart enough to do all that but I'll give it a try. So, any thoughts on the crest? Most have a motto; whereas this has none. It actually looks like eight crests/armorials combined and the engraving isn't all that good of a quality. Concerning size, is this a "normal" sized sugar?, it looks huge! regards, m [This message has been edited by rynegold (edited 04-17-2014).] IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-17-2014 09:01 AM
Ok Scott... I'm carefully trying to post something and see if it works. Nearly all my pix are on Flickr, and can't be saved to a hard drive anymore. So they have several choices so's to "share" photos (all of which lead back to Yahoo of course): here's the instructions from their forum... no one likes the new flickr it seems. https://www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/72157644026262464/ Which one/how would you use this to ad pix without a photo hosting, FTP and so on? Any idea? [This message has been edited by rynegold (edited 04-17-2014).] IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-17-2014 10:09 AM
We don't recommend or support Flicker. As it seems from the link, no one likes Filcker and everyday the once good photo hosting sites. The "free" photo hosting sites are changing their ways so as to better data mine (steal personal info). The issues are explored (it rambles) in this thread Photo hosting In short, don't use Flicker. Don't post links to third party sites. Post your images in the thread without embedded links. At this time http://www.picturetrail.com/ seems like it is less invasive but we expect it will eventually change because a "free" site has to make money. The best way is to use your own ISP provided storage. IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-17-2014 10:31 AM
Your ISP is one of those "one simple size fits all" server providers. Their help doesn't say much but I do see that they have an FTP server setup. I suspect if you make enough noise and connect with the right support person then they might reveal how. It might just be easier to find a full support ISP (internet service provider); your ISP looks like a cable company who is morphing into something else. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1970 |
posted 04-17-2014 01:57 PM
I'm also interested in the question of sugar-bowl size. I've noticed that American silver tea sets from the late 18th century to the mid-19th century tend to have gigantic sugar bowls--so big that I've seen them described as berry bowls or even covered fruit bowls sometimes! The teapots and coffee pots are proportionally big as well. What's the deal? I thought sugar and tea were very expensive back then, especially in the 18th c. Am I wrong about that? Did people have huge families to feed tea to? Were the tea sets for big parties? Were the very rich the only ones who could afford silver tea sets, and they were showing off how much silver, sugar, and tea they could afford? Other theories? Nice horse, ryngold! I have no idea about the crest, but I hope someone who does will answer. IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2334 |
posted 04-17-2014 05:04 PM
I think large sugar bowls were used in silver and china because sugar was not granulated during this time period. Sugar was brought in large blocks or cones and broken off by the consumer when ready to use. These chunks of sugar would have been of various sizes and the more you put in the bowl the more choice you would have for the amount of sugar wanted in your tea or coffee. Of course the idea that one wanted to show off the amount of sugar you had on hand could well have been another reason for the large size of sugar bowls. IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-17-2014 09:37 PM
Oh very nice ahwt! truely said. Another friend of mine pointed to the serious tooth decay problem of Johnson's London pointing to the ready availability of sugar, and the scarcity of dental hygiene. Johnson makes reference to "tooth worms": small bits of paper secreted up under the fingernails of the charlatan would would then "produce" the bloody bits (worms) when fooling about in a patient's mouth. Oh of course and he would charge accordingly. Polly... I've got to post the tea pot, stand and burner that I "think" goes with this sugar. Also Paul Storr. An interesting piece that I just might use myself. Well; we might as well use these things we acquire eh? [This message has been edited by rynegold (edited 04-17-2014).] IP: Logged |
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Kimo Posts: 1627 |
posted 04-18-2014 04:57 PM
Hi Rynegold. I am not sure how big this is from just the photos. Could you please tell us the approximate dimensions? If this is large then it may not be a sugar. It could be a slop bowl or something else entirely? Also, is there a reason why the horse and lid appear to be a different color of silver than the bowl part? I cannot see the details on the bowl part but from what I see on the lid the designs in the photos seem to be a bit different than the ones on the bowl part. Is this just a matter of the photos not having enough details to see the matching patterns between the two? As to the "crest" please permit me to give everyone a quick education. The overall emblem is called either a coat of arms or an achievement. There are various parts to this - one of which is the "crest" which refers only to the design on the top of the helmet that is above the shield. The shield can also be called the escutcheon. For ease of communication it is simplest to call the shield a coat of arms even though the full coat of arms includes the helm, the crest, the motto, and the side supporters Using this simplified terminology the designs that are on this piece of silver are several coats of arms in what is called a marshalling. That means two or more families that have coats of arms married. On this one you have the man who had both parents having coats of arms, and the other you have the woman coming from a family in which all four grandparents had coats of arms. There really is no way to easily or inexpensively tell who these families were unless you have unbroken provenance from the owner and their telling you the names of the families. If you really want to know you can submit a request to the British College of Arms who are the repository, keepers, and granters of British coats of arms over the centuries operating under the appointment and authority of the British crown. They will charge you a very, very large sum (think in terms of thousands of dollars) to research this in their archives and tell you which families these marshalled achievements are, and even then they cannot guarantee success since the colors (called tinctures) are critical. For example the lion rampant is a coat of arms to many differnt men and it depends on the exact color combination and any patterns. I have an ancestor to whom this design was granted in the 1600s, for example, and his is a green lion rampant on a gold background with no patterns in either. His lion rampant is looking forward while this one is called regardant which means looking back over his shoulder. It is all very complicated. Unless this one has a personal family heirloom my suggestion for any piece of silver with such armorials is to simply enjoy the attractive designs. [This message has been edited by Kimo (edited 04-18-2014).] IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-19-2014 09:32 AM
Thanks Kimo, I figured as much... several families combined. I'm also guessing that "how" each crest is engraved is a code for color no? Lines going up/down, some sideways, some at an angle, all signify a color of some sort? And when I say huge, I mean huge in modern terms; it's perhaps 3 times the size of a modern American silver service's sugar: maybe 8 inches across not counting the handles? The lid had been stored/wrapped in pacific cloth, thus the lack of tarnish. I'm going to polish the sugar today perhaps and match up the lid with liver of sulphur. I'm an old hand at restoring silver so it will be an easy task! thanks for the comments, [This message has been edited by rynegold (edited 04-19-2014).] [This message has been edited by rynegold (edited 04-19-2014).] IP: Logged |
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rynegold Posts: 15 |
posted 04-26-2014 02:42 PM
Ok... so I couldn't get the BB thing to work but, here's a link to an "item" I've aquired that defies explanation. At least so far. So hopefully my host here on SMP won't kill the post because I'd love to know what this was for... It's Chester 1905 w/ some possible marks from the country to which it was "possibly" exported?? IP: Logged |
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Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11520 |
posted 04-26-2014 10:52 PM
Follow the step by step in the How to Post Photos Until you do we won't be able to offer any guidance IP: Logged |
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